HMS Hood Refit between August 1940 - April 1941

I wonder what the four old fourstackers could add to FLAK defense, with their non existant AA outfit. (Just 2 mg's at best each ship.) Better have these operate independently as a light hit and run group, or delete them entirely. Also, NO SPITFIRES in 1941 outside the UK and Malta, as the Spitfire was still urgently needed in the UK and not being send abroad. Simmilarly, the IJN had no carriers likely here, as there was enough landbased airpower nearby, besides the carriers being needed for other tasks, such as buidling up airgroups and support over the Philippines.

Likely, the building up of British forces would force the IJN to allocate more strikeforces in the Saigon erea, with a second airgroup, which in the OTL was stationed in Formosa. These would be the main weapons, besides the likely increase in numbers of submarines in the Malayan region. Kondo would then likely have had fewer ships in the consequense, as the IJN was not so stupid to waist his forces against seemingly superior numbers of the opposition. More likely he would remain in the back, for a possible show in the aftermatch, as is trained for by the IJN in the years prior to war, but mainly against the USN. Also the sailing of the convoy is postponed, untill the sting was out of the Allied attackgroups.

What is likely a scenario?
Submarines strike with more force on the Allied ships, possibly killing both the large carriers in these confined waters, where they had nothing to do. Also, the order would have been to act more agressive in line with the IJN Submarinedocytrine against large surfaceships, so it is likely one would have attacked the capital ship force as well. With no aircover again, the result would be simmilar, or even worse, with all larger Alied ships sunk, or damaged and no losses to the IJN ships, besides some possible submarines and a small number of aircraft.

Sir in real timeline DesDiv 57 which consisted of old destroyers USS Alden (DD-211), USS John D. Edwards (DD-216), USS Whipple (DD-217), and USS Edsell (DD-219) were order to Singapore to give AWS (Anti-warfare submarine) because they had good sonar. You are right about anti-aircraft guns they were obsolete but against submarines they were really trained for the job. About the spitfire, well it is true what you say but hey its a alternate timeline and basically this scenerio would have Singapore and Malaya really arm to the teeth.

About the carriers, I added them because I figure that the Japanese find out by spys that two carriers were heading for Singapore by 28 of November and so they send this carriers. Remember the Japanese wants war and they will do anything to conquer Malaya and Dutch East Indies oil at all cost. Seening that this force is forming maybe they remove ships from the Philippines theater and send them to Malayasian Theater.

About the submarines well thats where DesDiv 57 will come in and try to attack them. That was my thought for this. But still How would a refit HMS Hood come out of this? :)
 
Sir in real timeline DesDiv 57 which consisted of old destroyers USS Alden (DD-211), USS John D. Edwards (DD-216), USS Whipple (DD-217), and USS Edsell (DD-219) were order to Singapore to give AWS (Anti-warfare submarine) because they had good sonar. You are right about anti-aircraft guns they were obsolete but against submarines they were really trained for the job. About the spitfire, well it is true what you say but hey its a alternate timeline and basically this scenerio would have Singapore and Malaya really arm to the teeth.

About the carriers, I added them because I figure that the Japanese find out by spys that two carriers were heading for Singapore by 28 of November and so they send this carriers. Remember the Japanese wants war and they will do anything to conquer Malaya and Dutch East Indies oil at all cost. Seening that this force is forming maybe they remove ships from the Philippines theater and send them to Malayasian Theater.

About the submarines well thats where DesDiv 57 will come in and try to attack them. That was my thought for this. But still How would a refit HMS Hood come out of this? :)


OK, your point is clear, though still in an alternate timeline still unlikely and a bit too much wishfull thining. A more scaled down variant is more logical.

About HMS Hood in an alt. refit 1941 mode: she still would be HMS Hood with a very long hull and poor turncircle, meaning highly vulnerable to airstrikes of torpedoplanes. No refit can change that simple fact. As of her fittings the DP 5.25 inch, or pwerhaps 4.5 inch guns will help a bit, but these would still lack the backing of a heavy medium range battery as the 2prd weapon was actually a close defense weapon with its plusses and contra's. We all know how poor the 2 pdr reacted in tropical conditions, especially its faulty ammunitions, so do not expect much of these primary AA weapons of the time in the Royal Navy, up to the arrival of sufficient numbers of 40mm Bofors later in the war (around 1943 at its soonest). So HMS Hood would be as vulnerable to airattacks as HMS Prince of Wales.

Also, the USN DDs were not ASW rigged as you mentioned but as old fashioned torpedoboats to strike at enemy shipping. They did not have ASDIC mounted of the latest types and certainly carried only a small number of depthcharges. Not ideal for ASW to say the least, which is true for most DDs, as only true speciallized ASW frigates can do this efficiently. As frigates were still not present in late 1941, this option was not possible. Even in the anti shipping mode the USN Fourstackers were poor ships, due to theier age and short range, as well as very poor torpedoes, that were a nightmare for the entire USN the first two years of the war. The only weapons the USN Clemson and Wickes class had that was reliable to some point were their 4 inch/50 main guns, that were only usefull against surfacetargets adn lacked AA capability. As these gusn were not placed in an intelligent way, their effectiveness was not very great in general.
 
OK, your point is clear, though still in an alternate timeline still unlikely and a bit too much wishfull thining. A more scaled down variant is more logical.

About HMS Hood in an alt. refit 1941 mode: she still would be HMS Hood with a very long hull and poor turncircle, meaning highly vulnerable to airstrikes of torpedoplanes. No refit can change that simple fact. As of her fittings the DP 5.25 inch, or pwerhaps 4.5 inch guns will help a bit, but these would still lack the backing of a heavy medium range battery as the 2prd weapon was actually a close defense weapon with its plusses and contra's. We all know how poor the 2 pdr reacted in tropical conditions, especially its faulty ammunitions, so do not expect much of these primary AA weapons of the time in the Royal Navy, up to the arrival of sufficient numbers of 40mm Bofors later in the war (around 1943 at its soonest). So HMS Hood would be as vulnerable to airattacks as HMS Prince of Wales.

Also, the USN DDs were not ASW rigged as you mentioned but as old fashioned torpedoboats to strike at enemy shipping. They did not have ASDIC mounted of the latest types and certainly carried only a small number of depthcharges. Not ideal for ASW to say the least, which is true for most DDs, as only true speciallized ASW frigates can do this efficiently. As frigates were still not present in late 1941, this option was not possible. Even in the anti shipping mode the USN Fourstackers were poor ships, due to theier age and short range, as well as very poor torpedoes, that were a nightmare for the entire USN the first two years of the war. The only weapons the USN Clemson and Wickes class had that was reliable to some point were their 4 inch/50 main guns, that were only usefull against surfacetargets adn lacked AA capability. As these gusn were not placed in an intelligent way, their effectiveness was not very great in general.

Yes you are right on the destroyers with ASW and in my opinion they suck but thats what Admiral Hart could offer. There weren't any modern destroyers in the Asiatic Fleet. To bad Washington didn't send a squadron of modern destroyers with at least two more heavy cruiser to booster the Asiatic Fleet.

About HMS Hood well about turning circle thats something I don't know and hey you may be right on that. But remember there are two carriers that could give support.
 
Even in the anti shipping mode the USN Fourstackers were poor ships, due to theier age and short range, as well as very poor torpedoes, that were a nightmare for the entire USN the first two years of the war. The only weapons the USN Clemson and Wickes class had that was reliable to some point were their 4 inch/50 main guns,

They used the WWI era fish, the Mk 8 Mod 8, that were reliable and had working contactors, but did run deep than set
 
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