True, very true, unless you can spin it as a jobs creation project to the treasury.
HMS EAGLE in the Falklands
- Thread starter flasheart
- Start date
Not really, although if they got hold of Oriskany, it might be possible to modernize her systems enough to get crew numbers down a bit. However that has the same issues as trying to refit the Audicious class again. Namely an old ship with many miles on it and possibly metal fatigue building up where you can't see it.
SsgtC
Banned
Boeing actually proposed and was developing a Super Phantom upgrade program. New engines, avionics, radar, combat systems, etc.
If the RN is planning for two carriers in the 50k ton range, it might be a good idea for them to maintain a whole supercarrier air wing with maybe six to eight combat squadrons plus support aircraft so the wing can be split when the new carriers arrive.
The only options would be one of the Midways really, the Essex's in mothballs are too old and small to be worthwhile.
There were plans drawn up by one of the UK shipbuilders for a 35k STOL carrier for export based on the Invincible class for either the Indians or potentially Japan that could have formed the basis for a CTOL carrier.
SsgtC
Banned
Technically, they would have been fine with say, Oriskany. The USN didn't like to admit it, but the Essex class were entirely capable of operating Phantoms. And with the BLC system that the British Phantoms had, Oriskany could have launched and recovered them practically at their max weights. Same with the Buccaneer. For proof, here's Lexington launching an A-6:
Why would the RN buy an older US carrier which is probably more worn out than the Eagle by that point? Plus, both Midway's and Essex's need more manpower than the Eagle.
It will cost the RN much less to give Eagle a refit and make it last to the mid-to-late 90's, when the new CATOBAR (1 or 2) come to replace it.
They can finance this by selling the Invicible to Australia and by selling one other to someone else (maybe India or Italy).
SsgtC
Banned
Oh I don't think they should buy an old US carrier. Was just saying that if they did go that route, they don't need a big deck. Something the size of Oriskany could work if they so choose.
Wasn't there some atempt around that time, in the US, of designing a smaller carrier? If so, and if the design was even partly completed. maybe the UK could use it?...
The US never pursued the medium carrier concept because they determined that a medium carrier would give them 50% of the capability of a supercarrier for 80% of the life cycle costs. By the time the CVV was going to be built, they were looking at $1.5 billion, compared to $1.6 billion for another Kitty Hawk and $2.4 billion for a nuclear-powered Nimitz.
I was just saying that the only viable options would likely be a Midway class as everything else is either way too old or needed by the USN, the US would be unlikely to let a viable carrier go especially as they were already looking to SLEP their existing decks in the 80's anyway.
SsgtC
Banned
They could probably be convinced to part with Oriskany but I doubt Midway or Coral Sea would even be considered. And honestly, the thought of Midway with her stability issues in the North Sea scares the crap out of me
I am wondering if given the right "sales pitch" by the UK the U.S. might more or less gift the Oriskany to the UK and perhaps fund a modernization ? At that point in the Cold War it would seem better to have a carrier actually in operation by an Allied Navy was a proven track record, vs sitting in moth balls.
If the UK sales pitch included purchasing new F/A18's I could envision the U.S. being prepared to make an older carrier such as Oriskany, avaliabe and carrying out a reasonable amount of upgrading and modernization. Perhaps the USN might be prepared to part with a newer carrier if the UK offered to buy enough new equipment from the U.S. ? (Maybe the UK also buys F15's instead of the Tornado F3 along with F/A18's for their carrier. I seem to recall McDonnel Douglas made both the F15 and the F/A18 so maybe both the USN and the USAF benefit from slightly lower unit costs for their purchases ?)
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SsgtC
Banned
Giving them the hull isn't the problem. IOTL they offered to do exactly that for Australia. The US would essentially give them an Essex class as long as Australia paid for the refit. They would probably do the same here. I don't think any agreement to buy Hornets would get the US to fund the refit. Maybe they'll partially fund it if the UK takes a different hull than Oriskany as the US was considering reactivating her themselves. Bon Homme Richard maybe? Though not sure that would exactly be in good taste. Of course, the British could always respond by renaming her Serapis when she commissions...
Which Essex was in the best shape or in what condition was Coral Sea since she didn't get the over the top refit Midway had, could she at the very least serve as part of the RN on loan with a US crew but FAA airgroup on the condition that the planes are 18s and the next RN Carrier will if possible by US equipment where possible. So CIWS and the like. I know the hull itself has to be British built with Rolls Royce engines.
Oriskany for the Essex class (assuming that's why it was the reactivation candidate). Coral Sea is old and while not worked to death like FDR it has few miles left on it. As someone mentioned Midway has stability issues that mean its not the best boat for the North Sea.