I imagine the epilogue will be the Anson being opened as museum ship in Portsmouth. And the chapter before that will her arriving home
HMS Anson soldiers on
- Thread starter alspug
- Start date
Certainly be interesting if and what kind of changes this will have on ship design and doctrines of the navies of the world.
HMS Anson war record .
1 major Naval Battle
4 Major land engagements .
constant aerial threat
9 Aircraft kills and 4 missile kills .
S-2 tracker . Sea Dart
Exocet Sea Wolf
Exocet Sea Wolf
A-4 Sea Dart
A-4 Sea Dart and ocean
A-4 Sea Wolf
A-4 Sea Wolf
A-4 Sea Wolf
A-4 Sea Wolf
A-4 23 mm cannon
Canberra Sea Dart
P-15 Sea Dart
P-15 Sea Wolf
7 Surface ship kills attributed completely or in conjunction with others 36,000 tons shipping sunk attributed .
ARA Piedrabuena 2200 tons (half kill , victim of Exocets from both HMS Anson and HMS Broadsword
ARA Belgrano 10,000 tons
ARA Bouchard 2200 tons
ARA Granville 1300 ton
ARA Drummond 1/3 kill 1300 ton
ARA Guerrico 1/3 Kill 1300 ton
ARA Veinticinco de Mayo 20,000 ton
Damage received.
Exocet ( Armour belt ) Splinter damage only
Exocet Deck beside Forward Turret . Large area of splinter and fire damage .
4 6 inch shell hits . Splinter damage
Exocet ( Armour belt ) Splinter damage only
Exocet (Armour belt) Splinter Damage
Exocet (between guns 2 and 3 ) Gun 2 fully out of commission . Gun 3 Damaged but ok
multiple Zuni Rocket hits , damage severe to moderate Hangar hit and Sea Dart Radar 26 dead 53 wounded
Sky Hawk impacted below Bridge . Extensive damage to non armoured sections . Large fire .
P 15 impact main armour belt beside machinery spaces Amidships . Multiple compartments compromised massive damage . close to Mission kill . 17 dead 14 wounded .
HMS Anson absorbed 6 SSM hits that would have completely wrecked any other ship in the task force .
When the final tally of kills and damage received was recieved the men in the Admiralty simply could not believe it . A single Battleship with a hodgepoge of modern weapons normally used in testing these weapons for better ships to use was simply put the best ship in the Royal Navy . She was expensive to man but cheap to fight . It would be the mantra that was used to fight for a new class of Battleship to be built for the Royal Navy . Before that they had to decide how to recognise the contribution of the old warrior to the minimising of British losses . Already requests had been received from the American navy to view the damage before it was fixed properly and also the engagement records . The price offered in return was a dozen of the new Phalanx CIWS that the Americans had planned to use to combat the SSM threat .
1 major Naval Battle
4 Major land engagements .
constant aerial threat
9 Aircraft kills and 4 missile kills .
S-2 tracker . Sea Dart
Exocet Sea Wolf
Exocet Sea Wolf
A-4 Sea Dart
A-4 Sea Dart and ocean
A-4 Sea Wolf
A-4 Sea Wolf
A-4 Sea Wolf
A-4 Sea Wolf
A-4 23 mm cannon
Canberra Sea Dart
P-15 Sea Dart
P-15 Sea Wolf
7 Surface ship kills attributed completely or in conjunction with others 36,000 tons shipping sunk attributed .
ARA Piedrabuena 2200 tons (half kill , victim of Exocets from both HMS Anson and HMS Broadsword
ARA Belgrano 10,000 tons
ARA Bouchard 2200 tons
ARA Granville 1300 ton
ARA Drummond 1/3 kill 1300 ton
ARA Guerrico 1/3 Kill 1300 ton
ARA Veinticinco de Mayo 20,000 ton
Damage received.
Exocet ( Armour belt ) Splinter damage only
Exocet Deck beside Forward Turret . Large area of splinter and fire damage .
4 6 inch shell hits . Splinter damage
Exocet ( Armour belt ) Splinter damage only
Exocet (Armour belt) Splinter Damage
Exocet (between guns 2 and 3 ) Gun 2 fully out of commission . Gun 3 Damaged but ok
multiple Zuni Rocket hits , damage severe to moderate Hangar hit and Sea Dart Radar 26 dead 53 wounded
Sky Hawk impacted below Bridge . Extensive damage to non armoured sections . Large fire .
P 15 impact main armour belt beside machinery spaces Amidships . Multiple compartments compromised massive damage . close to Mission kill . 17 dead 14 wounded .
HMS Anson absorbed 6 SSM hits that would have completely wrecked any other ship in the task force .
When the final tally of kills and damage received was recieved the men in the Admiralty simply could not believe it . A single Battleship with a hodgepoge of modern weapons normally used in testing these weapons for better ships to use was simply put the best ship in the Royal Navy . She was expensive to man but cheap to fight . It would be the mantra that was used to fight for a new class of Battleship to be built for the Royal Navy . Before that they had to decide how to recognise the contribution of the old warrior to the minimising of British losses . Already requests had been received from the American navy to view the damage before it was fixed properly and also the engagement records . The price offered in return was a dozen of the new Phalanx CIWS that the Americans had planned to use to combat the SSM threat .
The issue with building an 80s Battleship isbthat it's probably going to be an order of magnitude cheaper to develop Armour-Defeating Missile than it would be to develop a modern Battleship.
Do not think of massive thick slabs of steel . instead think of advanced composite armour and spaced for protection . Still an all or nothing scheme just the citadel is now not protected on the ships outer but all the way through . Forget more then an 8 inch cannon as building the turret etc would be prohibitive . Expect Nuclear power to drive costs down and utility up . Massive layered aerial defences and large numbers of missiles backed by a couple of artillery pieces . Aft to be Helo deck and decent towed array etc . probably no more then 25,000 ton per ship . Approx. same dimension's as a Des Moines . VL Sea Wolf and VL Sea Dart mk2 will occur due to operational experience . Treasury would probably prefer to refit HMS Anson then build another ship .
A Kirov built with Western quality control and a more general mission expectation would be formidable . The SS-n-19 is awesome but unless your trying to crack a CVBG overkill . Smaller missiles in numbers are going to do the job instead . I could see more missiles being considered for the magazines as HMS Anson fired quite a few in a low intensity conflict . Also Anti-missile operations eat stocks real fast because it does not matter what tomorrow brings , you need to beat todays threat first . The number of directors for missile fire would also see changes . My ideal configuration is Vertical launch Sea Dart Mk 2 (64 missiles) Forward with a single 8 inch cannon based off the US 8 inch Mk 71 Forward of that . As you move aft on either side of the Bridge is a pair of 30 mm Goalkeepers with the ability to engage targets from 10 degrees past the centreline forward and 160 degrees from forward centreline aft . As you continue to move aft the Amidships Vertical sea wolf launchers carry 32 rounds per side for 64 rounds total . Above them on the superstructure are two quad Harpoon launchers per side for 16 harpoon . Aft of this on either side of the large 3 Sea King sized hangar are another pair of Goalkeepers with similar training limits as the forward ones . Aft of the Helo deck and a deck lower is the Aft Sea Dart magazine with another 64 missiles (Strike length to enable Tomahawk as well ) And another 8 inch Mk 71 .
As far as collaboration between the USN and the RN the Sea Dart Mk 2 is designed to fit into the same size cells as the Standard Missile but does not have the Aegis system . A USN version of the same ship deletes the Amidships Sea Wolf Battery for Sea Sparrow instead . Not VL until mid 90's modded for ESSM .
As far as collaboration between the USN and the RN the Sea Dart Mk 2 is designed to fit into the same size cells as the Standard Missile but does not have the Aegis system . A USN version of the same ship deletes the Amidships Sea Wolf Battery for Sea Sparrow instead . Not VL until mid 90's modded for ESSM .
Now that is the best deal i have ever heard in a long time. Kind of envying the royal navy right about now.
alspug:
Thanks for a great timeline.
Wanted to take the opportunity to float some ideas while I can regarding Anson's future, but this would be applicable to any re-activated BB.
1982 is several decades before when the satellite-guided smart artillery shell M982-Excalibur was fielded and used in 2007-2008. Can Anson be around that long?
If it could then what an awesome weapon system: 14" extended range (maybe 100km) over-the-horizon, precision guided shells, wouldn't have as much range, but seems like would still be cheaper than an equivalent missile-based delivery system - six-gun salvo would be a little short of getting hit with an F15E loaded with GBU-10 2000 lb bombs.
(14" proj weight for Anson's guns is 1590 lbs).
With big shell size, seems like some interesting sub-calibre possibilities open up too.
If we go that route for 14", then also replace the 4.5" with 6.1"(155mm) single mounts - 3/side of ship? - that bring the good old, tried and true NATO 155mm arty gun to sea in a basic modern naval turret with an auto loader. Looks like the British did work on this idea, but it got cancelled with budget cuts in 2010.
In my view making the 155mm land howitzer into a naval gun would be this era's version of making the 88mm FLAK into the 88mm PAK.
(Can't understand how the USN didn't do something like that for Arleigh Burke's and new Zumwalt instead of the disaster they have now with the latter
- where was the initial coordination and lateral thinking? Navy snobbery?)
Eventually, what better a platform for a railgun than an old BB - single mount turret, designed to fit into the twin turret ring, maybe a twin mount into the quad turret ring.
Also, be a good idea to figure out something to finesse barrel life for the 14" - nav weapons says about 340 rounds. Is there ability left anywhere that can still make these kind of guns?
Interested in thoughts/comments.
Thanks for a great timeline.
Wanted to take the opportunity to float some ideas while I can regarding Anson's future, but this would be applicable to any re-activated BB.
1982 is several decades before when the satellite-guided smart artillery shell M982-Excalibur was fielded and used in 2007-2008. Can Anson be around that long?
If it could then what an awesome weapon system: 14" extended range (maybe 100km) over-the-horizon, precision guided shells, wouldn't have as much range, but seems like would still be cheaper than an equivalent missile-based delivery system - six-gun salvo would be a little short of getting hit with an F15E loaded with GBU-10 2000 lb bombs.
(14" proj weight for Anson's guns is 1590 lbs).
With big shell size, seems like some interesting sub-calibre possibilities open up too.
If we go that route for 14", then also replace the 4.5" with 6.1"(155mm) single mounts - 3/side of ship? - that bring the good old, tried and true NATO 155mm arty gun to sea in a basic modern naval turret with an auto loader. Looks like the British did work on this idea, but it got cancelled with budget cuts in 2010.
In my view making the 155mm land howitzer into a naval gun would be this era's version of making the 88mm FLAK into the 88mm PAK.
(Can't understand how the USN didn't do something like that for Arleigh Burke's and new Zumwalt instead of the disaster they have now with the latter
- where was the initial coordination and lateral thinking? Navy snobbery?)
Eventually, what better a platform for a railgun than an old BB - single mount turret, designed to fit into the twin turret ring, maybe a twin mount into the quad turret ring.
Also, be a good idea to figure out something to finesse barrel life for the 14" - nav weapons says about 340 rounds. Is there ability left anywhere that can still make these kind of guns?
Interested in thoughts/comments.
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