Hitler's Decision

and that includes the AA guns also :p... sortie ratio's in the desert where not particularly high (for obvious reasons I guess) but indeed its confirmed that the minimum monthly demand for supplies by the LW in early 1942 was 9k tonnes of supplies...I'll have to check showalter's date/essay on sources on that... I think he pegged LW operational aircraft at that time as 542 but I'll confirm later for sure

the africa corps itself minimum demand was 60k tonnes per month (3 mechanized divisions with about the strength of a single US armored division between them)

the largest ever supply was in feb 1942 with 56k tonnes of supply being delivered (so everyone was constantly short)

It just seems terribly low.
If we assume around a 2 ton bomb load, plus at least as much fuel, plus things like ammo, thats 5 tons.
Less than 4 sorties per plane per MONTH, and thats assume the crew, support crews, etc etc live off sand...

I think there may be a mistake in the figure ssomewhere.....
 
hm, you only like to insult others and can´t say something interesting... fine

that make clear that you need help - but i do not care. you have no interest in this thread so i suggest you stay away?

thank you

Start posting in the right board - Alien Space Bats - and I will.
 
fine, tommy has some toys... but - they can´t use em if they are thrown out of africa, right?
you can tell me the exact numbers of the british air fleet in africa, say from may1940-august 1940?
please, be so kind - also, i need to say, the germans and italians in the desert must have been superheros? cause with all th supply they do not had they could hold on... strange...

if the axis eliminate the malta danger, concentrate (in the whole area, not only in africa - sadly you avoided to read all posts, i explained it 8 times? well, if 8 isn´t enough, i hope 9 will do? )their air power and speed up an early kairo-invasion (knowing that logistics are bad in africa) they are not allowed to do a thing.
the britons, at the other side - cannot be beaten, cause of, yes, well... why not? no air support (do you have found the mighty mid1940-airforce of the britons in africa?) two average trained british divisions against 4 german divisions, that performance showed how to beat british and french troops sensles.. but well, in africa, they are not allowed to do something... like in real life.. oh wait - in that they beat with inferior troops the britons nearly sensless... didn´t the krauts (and the britons, sorry to critizise em, but their performance in mid42 sucked... )knew this?

honestly, you can answer me a question
what plot is needed for a 1940-victory of the axis in africa...

This has also been explained 8 or nine times. The logistics do not exist in Libya to supply a large, concentrated, force. Rommel achieved amazing things with a force that was at the thin end of a very - and I mean very - long supply line, supplemented by using captured equipmnent that was useful in the short term but useless in the long term. Adding a huge chunk of the Luftwaffe, with all the logistics needs that it requires and you have a massive supply deficit in next to no time. The best thing to do is to look at Montgomery's problems with the 8th Army when he reached Medenine - a large chunk of his army was on the roads behind him.
Saying 'if the Axis deals with Malta' is a good question, but you don't say how it could be done. It would have required a large seabourne force along with an airbourne assault. All perfectly feasible in theory, but in 1940 the Royal Navy was a substantial presence in the Med. An invasion of Malta was possible, but it would have been rather nasty.
I'd like to raise another point that has been overlooked. Britain was not the only source for Commonwealth troops. Troops were arriving in Egypt throughout 1940 from New Zealand and Australia, as well as India. If Ultra had picked up (oops, I mean when Ultra picked up) a German shift southwards, then troops would have been converging on Egypt from all over the place.
But then the entire premise of this flawed, because that deluded sweaty little piece of filth in Berlin had his eyes very firmly fixed on Russia after the fall of France.
Oh, by the way - RAF strength in Egypt in June 1940 was five squadrons of Bristol Blenheims, one of Valentias, one of Bombays and three squadrons of Gladiators. The Hurricanes arrived later that year. Not a lot, I must admit, but certainly capable of being reinforced. And with the BoB not raging, then the RAF suddenly has a hell of a lot more strength.
 
This has also been explained 8 or nine times. The logistics do not exist in Libya to supply a large, concentrated, force. Rommel achieved amazing things with a force that was at the thin end of a very - and I mean very - long supply line, supplemented by using captured equipmnent that was useful in the short term but useless in the long term. Adding a huge chunk of the Luftwaffe, with all the logistics needs that it requires and you have a massive supply deficit in next to no time.

Star Trek replicator??:cool::cool:
 
It just seems terribly low.
If we assume around a 2 ton bomb load, plus at least as much fuel, plus things like ammo, thats 5 tons.
Less than 4 sorties per plane per MONTH, and thats assume the crew, support crews, etc etc live off sand...

I think there may be a mistake in the figure ssomewhere.....

I don't think so; Showalter is regarded as the "dean" of american military study and is one of the foremost modern historians on the wehrmacht

Keep in mind a couple things that might make the number feel more logical

9k represented the "minimum monthly demand" I have no idea what kind of sortie ratio that translated into or what kind of tempo in operations this could realisticly maintain, but the LW did WANT more

units actually in the desert where given tactical short range missions as opposed to long range bombing of the canal and alexandria which was done from greek fields, so they had a shortish time to target

there where LONG lulls between battles so they had a long time to build up reserves for an offensive... ie it took rommel 4 months to build up the supplies for an 18 day offensive at gazzalla
 
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