Hitler without the Soviet Union??

WI there was no Lenninst coup aka Great October Revolution. My guess is that Russia would have split into a number of states rather as in OTL since 1989.

I think there would still have been revolutionary movements in Germany in 1918 and that they would be suppressed. There would be, I think, something like the Communists in the form of Independent Socialists- but of course without a state to look to.

Without the existence of a Bolshevik state would Hitler have still taken power?

If he did would his general hatred and contempt for Slavs have caused him to look East?

Does Hitler still go for first Czechoslovakia and then Poland?

What would the Russian successor states and Russia do about this?
 
I would think that without a Communist state as a bugbear, European Fascism becomes a totally different animal. The concept of a corporatist, strongly hierarchical, race-based polity was in the air, but its political appeal would have been much more limited. I can certainly not see Mussolini coming to power without a 'Red Scare' to give him legitimacy in the eyes of the upper class and church, and without Mussolini, Hitler is considerably weakened.

There would probably still be an autocratic regime in Germany at some point, many Germans will still be racist and antisemitic, the government may even make that a policy, but any Fascism developing without Soviet Communism is going to be so different we would find it hard to predict. Personally, I doubt it will manage more than minority appeal, with traditional aurthoritarian conservatives gaining part of its vote and bourgeois and socialist 'modernist' parties the rest.
 
Derek Jackson said:
I think there would still have been revolutionary movements in Germany in 1918 and that they would be suppressed. There would be, I think, something like the Communists in the form of Independent Socialists- but of course without a state to look to.

Not necessary. I think communist uprisings in Europe took cue from October revolution. so no OR no uprisings.

Derek Jackson said:
Without the existence of a Bolshevik state would Hitler have still taken power?

No. There wouldn't be much support for him. Oh, he might still be around but much, much less influential. If he takes over NSDAP they will be some fringe party. Maybe some inroads at local level but even that doubtfull.
 
I've read that around the time of the rise of Hitler, several parties supporting a restoration of the Kaiser were also popular in Germany. I wonder if any of these parties could come to power in the absence of a "Red Scare" to throw everyone behind the Nazi Party?
 
Imajin said:
I've read that around the time of the rise of Hitler, several parties supporting a restoration of the Kaiser were also popular in Germany. I wonder if any of these parties could come to power in the absence of a "Red Scare" to throw everyone behind the Nazi Party?

They, or supporters of a military dictatorship / presidential state around Hindenburg or Ludendorff, would be good candidates. However, I don't think a restitution of the monarchy would go down well with the rest of the world.
 

Xen

Banned
carlton_bach said:
They, or supporters of a military dictatorship / presidential state around Hindenburg or Ludendorff, would be good candidates. However, I don't think a restitution of the monarchy would go down well with the rest of the world.

But would the rest of the world do anything? Especially if the monarchy is restored by democracy. They didnt seem to do much about Hitler and things he was doing they didnt like, but without the USSR the world is very different. Its possible the world will stand up to Germany then, but I guess it also depends on how Germany acts once it re-arms. If the new German Reich expands much like Hitler annexing Austria, Sudentland, and perhaps Danzig from Poland and then quietly goes about its business, no longer appearing to be much of a threat, would the world care? This too I guess depends on what happens in Russia, what replaces the USSR? A Tsar? A military dictatorship? A Democratic Republic? A constitutional monarchy like the United Kingdom?
 
Without a Communist Russia as a threat to their power, the Allies would have tried to enforce Versailles on Germany. Germany would have had to pay reparations instead of receiving them.
Hitler might have taken power and led a doomed revolt against the occupation forces.
 
wkwillis said:
Without a Communist Russia as a threat to their power, the Allies would have tried to enforce Versailles on Germany. Germany would have had to pay reparations instead of receiving them.
Hitler might have taken power and led a doomed revolt against the occupation forces.
I don't know. Most everyone's armies were pretty drained at the end of WWI, and were melting away as fast as possible after the war ended.

As for the question, while we might see a regime coming to power in postwar Germany with a few Nazilike elements ("scientific" antisemitism, Lebensraum, and mysticism all enjoying plenty of popularity in Weimar Germany), the rise of Hitler was something that I would leave to chance.
 
I remain curious about this. I assume that Russia would not be a model democracy in this scenario.

Could Hitler have offered a deal to whoever was running Russia on the lines of the Nazi Soviet pact?

Would a reactionary Russia have wanted to take back bits of Poland?

Gosh I did not realize how old this thread was when I searched it should I have just restarted it
 

MSZ

Banned
Without Russia being communist, the west is likely to be more inclined to cooperate with it to enforce Versailles. Meaning France would have a much different relation with Czechoslovakia and Poland most likely trying to create an alliance between the two and Russia, as such a bloc could very effectively pressure Germany.

Hitler may still be relevant, it is not like the revolution was exactly what brought the Germans to rally behind him - there would be other reasons present to the same even without the revolution. But it is likely that the lack of fear from the USSR would be what would cost him those few percents of votes he got OTL that if he didn't get, would allow Weimar Germany to survive under a grand coalition.

He would still be eastwards looking though, he didn't come up with Lebensraum/Mittleleuropa himself, that idea had been floating around for some time.

And Russia? Depends who gets in charge. If its some rational people not fueled by revanchism, "restoring the empire", Russian chauvinism, etc.they might play along with Versailles rules. If not, they may want to terminate the Versailles order, but whether they would do it through a direct alliance with Germany, or a "Yalta before a war", getting the west to sell Central Europe to them in return for an anti-german alliance is debatable.
 
What does Russia look like in terms of the war? It was my understanding the Provisional Government were looking to fight on. How badly mauled is Germany or Russia going to be and what would Russia's demands be?
 
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