Hitler waits until 1943 to start World War II and is defeated. What happens next?

The battle performance of the Hitler Jugend is well attested. Major General Charles Foulkes, commander of the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division, who encountered the 12 SS Division at Caen and Falaise, stated "...we found that when we bumped into battle-experienced German troops we were no match for them."

Read the accounts by Zetterling or Max Hastings of the Battle of Normandy.

Another key indicator is that although German troops underwent far more severe bombardment that Allied troops, they showed far lower incidence of combat fatigue.

Facts win out over offended national pride unfortunately.

As for the comment about the Poles, the Dupuy institute has shown that the Germans had a combat efficiency against them of 1.7. This is despite the fact that the bulk of the German Army had minimal training and nearly half the men were aged 40+.

You’re missing the point. The combat performance of individual soldiers isn’t the deciding factor in who wins a war. This is real life, not Call of Duty—the KDR of German soldiers is mostly irrelevant. And even if it weren’t, as others in this thread have pointed out, Germany wouldn’t be fielding all Hitler Jugend divisions all the time (or even at all, at first).

Not to mention that by this point the Final Solution would likely be well underway, drawing critical resources away from the war effort at a time when Germany won’t have much to spare to begin with.

It wouldn’t be long before superior Allied economic performance, industrial capacity (especially if the US joins the war), logistics, and military organization will all begin to tell against the Nazis.
 
The whole premise is flawed. You are talking about four more years of Nazi indoctrination of the German youth. The results of this can be predicted by analysing the battle performance of the Hitler Jugend division in Normandy. It fought with the fanaticism of the Japanese and a battle craft beyond any Allied troops. It had a combat power no Allied troops could ever hope to match. Such troops would have formed the bulk of the German Army by 1943. The outcome would have been the opposite of that you predict.

I have yet to see a belief in an ideology stop a bullet. Or a bomb. Or a tank/artillery shell. With another 3-4 years of rearmament, Britain and France would have far more of all of these. By that stage, then a Germany that starts a war is going to be a Germany with a lot of fanatical corpses.
 
I'm reminded at this point of the embryonic atomic research program France initiated in early 1940. A number of refugee physicists had collected in France & were being combined with the French physics establishment in a organized program. Discussions were underway with a British represenative as to what participation might be had from that direction.
 
1939/1940 was the German's window of opportunity France and Brittan were rearming. In 1943 Blitzkrieg becomes a war of attrition at best, Germany loses.
 
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It wouldn’t be long before superior Allied economic performance, industrial capacity (especially if the US joins the war), logistics, and military organization will all begin to tell against the Nazis.

Anyone have any solid information on what French aircraft production was likely to be OTL for 1941-42. In the Spring of 1940 they had completed a massive reorganization of the aircraft industry & were ramping up production in a major way. Unfortunately I've seen no projections for what they expected to result from this. 5,000 per year? 10,000? 20,000? The Brits were cranking out 20,000 + in 1942.
 
You’re missing the point. The combat performance of individual soldiers isn’t the deciding factor in who wins a war. This is real life, not Call of Duty—the KDR of German soldiers is mostly irrelevant. And even if it weren’t, as others in this thread have pointed out, Germany wouldn’t be fielding all Hitler Jugend divisions all the time (or even at all, at first).
Also, the 12th SS lost 80% of its personnel in the Normandy campaign. So...
 
This never gets to a World War stage. The German economy overheats. Inflation and shortages ensue, whereupon Hitler's regime self-destructs.

And than what? After the fall of the nazi's we are left with a megagermany in Europe. I dont think anyone would activley attack Germany and the most I can see is Bohemian independence without Sudetenland after a rebellion and even thats not sure. And when German economy is sorted we have a real beast hopefull led by someone not crazy.
 

Wimble Toot

Banned
The whole premise is flawed. You are talking about four more years of Nazi indoctrination of the German youth. The results of this can be predicted by analysing the battle performance of the Hitler Jugend division in Normandy. It fought with the fanaticism of the Japanese and a battle craft beyond any Allied troops. It had a combat power no Allied troops could ever hope to match.

And still lost!
 
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