Hitler loved Germany? (and the germans?)

Garrison

Donor
It was the drugs, messing with his head.
We'll probably never know for sure how Hitler felt about Germany and Germans because after 1933, the guy was on drugs like 24/7 and it only got worse as the war went on.
A person on drugs is not their real self.
Please provide evidence Hitler was 'on drugs 24/7' between 1933 and 1939, specifically drugs that would affect his mental state. There's also all of Hitler's writings pre 1933, which oddly enough match up perfectly with the actions and statements made when according to you he was under the influence of drugs, its almost as if the drugs had no influence on his attitudes or actions.
 
Please provide evidence Hitler was 'on drugs 24/7' between 1933 and 1939, specifically drugs that would affect his mental state. There's also all of Hitler's writings pre 1933, which oddly enough match up perfectly with the actions and statements made when according to you he was under the influence of drugs, its almost as if the drugs had no influence on his attitudes or actions.
The effects only started showing later in the war when he took more than was good for him.
Morell's medicines were just drugs in disguise.
Hitler didn't need as much medicine in the 1930s.
It was after the war started that his stress went up and the need for his "medicines" did as well.


All 34 drugs and narcotics.
 
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Garrison

Donor
The effects only started showing later in the war when he took more than was good for him.
Morell's medicines were just drugs in disguise.
Hitler didn't need as much medicine in the 1930s.
It was after the war started that his stress went up and the need for his "medicines" did as well.
Again nothing you offer demonstrates any evidence on impairment in the 1930's. Hitler's actions and pronouncements in the 1930's are entirely consistent with his earlier writings, he interacted with many close associates who knew him prior to 1933 and none of their records record any changes. There is not one shred of evidence of any intellectual impairment in that timeframe, its simply Nazi apologism.


All 34 drugs and narcotics.
Penicillin is not a narcotic, Caffiene and vitamins are not narcotics, Sulphonamide is not a narcotic, Glucose is certainly not a narcotic and 'Strophantin' was homeopathic so it is essentially nothing! That's just the ones I could identify from a quick glance at the list, which apparently was more than you could be bothered to do. This doesn't even get into the fact that a number of the items are explicitly stated as not being administered until the 1940's. Once again you've simply grabbed something from Wikipedia and made bold assertions about it with so much as bothering to read the whole thing.
 
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It was the drugs, messing with his head.
We'll probably never know for sure how Hitler felt about Germany and Germans because after 1933, the guy was on drugs like 24/7 and it only got worse as the war went on.
A person on drugs is not their real self.

Hitler's drug use came later. It impaired his judgement, and contributed to his general physical, and mental deterioration, but it didn't create his evil nature. Hitler's sociopathy, megalomania, narcissism, rigidity of personality, and vial race hatred came from his own soul.
 

TDM

Kicked
This may be best illustrated by the popularity of Spengler's 'Decline of the West' in Germany, it's gloomy thesis that the 'West' had entered the 'Winter' phase of history and was doomed to fall seemed to take hold in certain circles, though Hitler for one vehemently rejected its conclusion that Germany was the prisoner of inevitable historical cycles. Given Germany's experience in WWI its hardly surprising such aa fatalistic work gained prominence whereas it didn't really take hold elsewhere.


I think that's a good point, and while Hitler didn't agree with the conclusion, he certainly agreed with the "problem".
 
Again nothing you offer demonstrates any evidence on impairment in the 1930's. Hitler's actions and pronouncements in the 1930's are entirely consistent with his earlier writings, he interacted with many close associates who knew him prior to 1933 and none of their records record any changes. There is not one shred of evidence of any intellectual impairment in that timeframe, its simply Nazi apologism.


Penicillin is not a narcotic, Caffiene and vitamins are not narcotics, Sulphonamide is not a narcotic, Glucose is certainly not a narcotic and 'Strophantin' was homeopathic so it is essentially nothing! That's just the ones I could identify from a quick glance at the list, which apparently was more than you could be bothered to do. This doesn't even get into the fact that a number of the items are explicitly stated as not being administered until the 1940's. Once again you've simply grabbed something from Wikipedia and made bold assertions about it with so much as bothering to read the whole thing.
I doubt you read over the whole thing either because they clearly stated that the penicillin Morell used was fake as the Germans did not have penicillin.
Drugs and narcotics, the point that some are drugs and others are narcotics.

And here you are twisting my point.
My original point was that we will never know Hitler's true opinion about Germans and Germany because
A. He's dead.
B. Before he came to power, no one gave a shit about his opinion and his letters and stuff to people he was close to are now lost to history
C Mein Kampf is full of idealistic shit that Hitler wanted to do, but once he came to power, the limitations of reality set in.
D. During the time when he had power and people were paying attention to him, he was on drugs. This means that whatever he said during this time cannot be considered to be 100% reliable.

None of that is apologism. It's simply an explanation of why we have to make sure someone is lucid and sober when we record their opinion on something.
This is also the reason why people who testify in court have to be lucid and sober.
For example, when I got drunk, I was saying and doing a lot of weird stuff that I wouldn't have said or done otherwise. My friends didn't take anything I said during that time seriously because I was not myself aka drunk.
 
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TDM

Kicked
I doubt you read over the whole thing either because they clearly stated that the penicillin Morell used was fake as the Germans did not have penicillin.
Drugs and narcotics, the point that some are drugs and others are narcotics.

And here you are twisting my point.
My original point was that we will never know Hitler's true opinion about Germans and Germany because
A. He's dead.
B. Before he came to power, no one gave a shit about his opinion and his letters and stuff to people he was close to are now lost to history
C Mein Kampf is full of idealistic shit that Hitler wanted to do, but once he came to power, the limitations of reality set in.
D. During the time when he had power and people were paying attention to him, he was on drugs. This means that whatever he said during this time cannot be considered to be 100% reliable.

I think the point "is being on drugs" can mean a lot of different things especially going by the standards of the day! And not all of them mean Hitler wasn't well aware of what he was doing and the repercussions it would have on the German people.

Talking of a lot of different things, that list is indeed a lot of different things! But frankly a lot of them are never going to relevent to the point being made.
 
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Hitler's drug use came later. It impaired his judgement, and contributed to his general physical, and mental deterioration, but it didn't create his evil nature. Hitler's sociopathy, megalomania, narcissism, rigidity of personality, and vial race hatred came from his own soul.
Based on the images in post #56.
No, my point is that when Hitler gave the Nero Order in March 1945 he was 100% on drugs because at the end of March he was kind of regretting what he said.

The guy was a mess by 1944 and completely unraveled by 1945.
 

Garrison

Donor
I doubt you read over the whole thing either because they clearly stated that the penicillin Morell used was fake as the Germans did not have penicillin.
Drugs and narcotics, the point that some are drugs and others are narcotics.

Fine I misread that part of your statement, but my point that most of the drugs that would be classed as narcotics were not prescribed until the 1940s stands.

And here you are twisting my point.
My original point was that we will never know Hitler's true opinion about Germans and Germany because
A. He's dead.

We have extensive records that lay out his attitudes opinions and beliefs.

B. Before he came to power, no one gave a shit about his opinion and his letters and stuff to people he was close to are now lost to history

Are they? So none of the people who knew him in the period before and after he came to power left any records?

C Mein Kampf is full of idealistic shit that Hitler wanted to do, but once he came to power, the limitations of reality set in.

Did it really? Please explain which of the major goals laid out in Mein Kampf Hitler didn't try and achieve?

D. During the time when he had power and people were paying attention to him, he was on drugs. This means that whatever he said during this time cannot be considered to be 100% reliable.

No this is you claim which you have utterly failed to back up, show evidence of any change in Hitler's speeches, conversations, or the records of those who knew him in the 20s and 30s or admit that you are just peddling specious Nazi apologia.

None of that is apologism. It's simply an explanation of why we have to make sure someone is lucid and sober when we record their opinion on something.

Except you have consistently failed to provide one bit of evidence that Hitler was in any way mentally impaired by drugs in the 1930s.

This is also the reason why people who testify in court have to be lucid and sober.
For example, when I got drunk, I was saying and doing a lot of weird stuff that I wouldn't have said or done otherwise. My friends didn't take anything I said during that time seriously because I was not myself aka drunk.

And this last bit is just waffle.

ETA: Oh and I decided to reread the Wiki page and of course noted that Morell did not meet Hitler, or start treating him until 1936. So it should very simply for you to present evidence of some change in Hitler as of course this is well within the period after he came to power so your excuse about people not giving a shit about documenting his letters and his opinions before he came to power is irrelevant. So please show us a change in Hitler from the pre to post Morell period in the 1930s?
 
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Based on the images in post #56.
No, my point is that when Hitler gave the Nero Order in March 1945 he was 100% on drugs because at the end of March he was kind of regretting what he said.

The guy was a mess by 1944 and completely unraveled by 1945.

I don't know about Hitler regretting the Nero Order at the end of March 45. Speer was still running around in April countermanding orders to blow things up. When Speer saw Hitler on March 29 he persuaded him to resend the order, so Speer could have discretion in ordering demolitions. Hitler only agreed to that because Speer convinced Hitler he still had faith that the war could still be won. When he meet Hitler for the last time on April 22 he told Hitler he had disobeyed the order. He didn't know if he was going to be shot for disloyalty, or forgiven. Hitler instead passed over the subject, asked him about Grand Admiral Donitz, and wished Speer luck.

By that point Hitler had entered the final apathetic phase of his depression, nothing mattered, he was only thinking about his own death. After that the only things that roused his rage were the betrayals by Goering, and Himmler, egged on by Bormann. So I think Hitler still wanted to destroy Germany's infrastructure until the last week of his life, because he believed it was being done. He sure wanted 14 year old boys to keep dying.
 
We have extensive records that lay out his attitudes opinions and beliefs.
Some of it is conflicting, like his opinion on people of the Middle East and Asians.
And other bits of it changed, like his Anglophilia.
"his...beliefs"
We don't even know for certain if Hitler was a Christian or an agnostic or atheist.
There are quotes where he mentions Providence (I think that's another word for God) but then we also have him saying that Islam is a much better religion than Christianity.

There are extensive records, but they are often contradictory or obviously biased (like Speer's book).
 
Some of it is conflicting, like his opinion on people of the Middle East and Asians.
And other bits of it changed, like his Anglophilia.
"his...beliefs"
We don't even know for certain if Hitler was a Christian or an agnostic or atheist.
There are quotes where he mentions Providence (I think that's another word for God) but then we also have him saying that Islam is a much better religion than Christianity.

There are extensive records, but they are often contradictory or obviously biased (like Speer's book).

Hitler was no Christian. He sought to create new specular institutions to replace Christian Faith. He rejected the divinity of Jesus, and of course deigned he was a Jew. He hated the moral codes of Christian teachings. He talked of hanging the Pope, in the middle of Vatican Square. He spoke well of Islam because he thought it was a better religion for warriors. In his models of the New Germania, and Linz there are no churches, or any places of worship. The only temples were stadiums of secular worship, and the glorification of war.

Hitler believed some nebulous Providence had set up the world as an arena for biological determinism, where races of humans could fight for dominance, and survival. In his world view man was just another animal, of no greater value, or higher purpose then survival. Hitler reveled in the slaughter of human beings, but thought it was immoral for humans to "enslave, and eat animals." His vegetarianism was both moral, and because meat upset his stomach. Nazi education taught children life was a Darwinian struggle where the strong preyed upon the weak, and the weak deserved their fate.

I remember a Nazi film of a classroom. The children watch a film of a Fox, or Wolf, I can't remember killing a Rabbit, and telling the class this is how the world works. A more sensitive boy looks upset, so the teacher asks him why? He says he feels sorry for the Rabbit. The teacher mocks the boy, and the rest of the class laughs at him. Look at films of children measuring the noses of classmates to see who is a Jew, or member of other inferior races. No decent human being of any faith, or no faith teaches children those kinds of values. Those teachings have nothing to do with Christianity, or any other faith, it was all about hate, not love, which takes us back to the question of this Thread.

Hitler had little love in his heart for anything. His mind was twisted, and dark stemming from his difficulties in relating to people. One of the reasons he was rejected as a young man, by the Vienna Art School was his almost complete inability to draw people. All his life his relationships with people were strained. He had difficulties making friends, and relationships with women never worked out. He almost always ended friendships with bitter feelings of betrayal. He needed to have relationships where he was totally dominate. Heathy relationships are based on trust, and a sense of equality, and respect, Hitler was not capable of giving those things. A narcissist can't give love, because they never felt they received the love they needed to feel secure. A narcissist is a very damaged person, who can never be trusted with power, it will never end well.
 

Garrison

Donor
O
Some of it is conflicting, like his opinion on people of the Middle East and Asians.
And other bits of it changed, like his Anglophilia.
"his...beliefs"
We don't even know for certain if Hitler was a Christian or an agnostic or atheist.
There are quotes where he mentions Providence (I think that's another word for God) but then we also have him saying that Islam is a much better religion than Christianity.

There are extensive records, but they are often contradictory or obviously biased (like Speer's book).
Pure waffle, this was your claim:

It was the drugs, messing with his head.
We'll probably never know for sure how Hitler felt about Germany and Germans because after 1933, the guy was on drugs like 24/7 and it only got worse as the war went on.
A person on drugs is not their real self.

Since as the Wiki page points out Hitler didn't even meet Morell until 1936 your claim is utter nonsense. We have plenty of evidence as to Hitler's attitudes and beliefs, you have none to show they were altered by any drug taking after he met Morell.
 

TomNolan

Banned
Recently we discussed Adolf Hitler with a colleague. And we came to the conclusion that such behaviour and the development of the war speaks of deep complexes and dislike for oneself, not to mention respect for people and the German. I decided to look for more facts at https://phdessay.com/free-essays-on/adolf-hitler/ about this person and his life. These facts only confirm that a person who started a war against humanity cannot love it.
 
I remember a Nazi film of a classroom. The children watch a film of a Fox, or Wolf, I can't remember killing a Rabbit, and telling the class this is how the world works. A more sensitive boy looks upset, so the teacher asks him why? He says he feels sorry for the Rabbit. The teacher mocks the boy, and the rest of the class laughs at him.
I think I know what you're talking about: the Disney wartime cartoon Education for Death.

Morell's quackery may have had adverse effects on Hitler's mental health, but there's no evidence it had any effect on his opinions.
Exactly. Hitler was talking about wiping out the Jews as early as 1922.
 
I think I know what you're talking about: the Disney wartime cartoon Education for Death.


Exactly. Hitler was talking about wiping out the Jews as early as 1922.
It may be what your talking about, but this part of it was live footage, not a cartoon. It was in German, with English subtitles. It was deeply disturbing to see children being taught to mock compassion. Hitler poisoned the Soul of Germany, and some of his evil lives on. He didn't originate hate, and evil, but he put his own stamp on it.
 
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