Hitler killed in March 1943

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Spark_(1940)#Later_failed_attempts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf...on_Gersdorff#Conspiracy_to_assassinate_Hitler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Spark_(1940)#Major_collaborators

What if he succeed and killed all five; Hitler, Himmler, Göring, Keitel and Dönitz (which means a total collapse of the Third Reich's leadership)? It was one of the earliest attempts by the same people from the July 20 plot and probably almost the same government they'd set up would come in power. But how would the war succeed? How would the allies react? The new German government wanted peace with the western allies, would the western allies accept? And what about the Soviet Union?
Would a Germany with Austria, the Sudetenland and it's 1914 eastern border be plausible? (aslong as the western allies also force a peace in the east).

How would in that TL 2013 look like?

Let's discuss this because I am really interested in a scenario like this.

Practical information for March 1943: Germans still in Tunisia but at the point to retreat to Italy. German conquests towards Stalingrad made in 1942 almost lost again but also the German counteroffensive around Kharkov just ended in a decisive victory for the Germans.
 
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Interesting Possibilities.....

A decapitation of Germany's wartime leadership in March 1943 presents interesting possibilities. Your scenario leaves some leading Nazis alive, though--including Bormann, Goebbels, and Speer.

With the war not yet lost--no Western Front in Europe and German military forces still deep inside Soviet territory--there is a question as to how influential elements of German society would respond the assassinations and attempted takeover of the government by the conspirators. The Nazi Party and the SS would assuredly have a very negative reaction to the assassination of Hitler and Himmler by elemets of the regular German Army. A civil war inside Germany could break out between the Wehrmacht and the SS.

Assuming the "good" Germans win such a civil war, a negotiated settlement to the war and military-led government might be a likely result.
 
"negotiated" as in "Germany surrenders and is reduced to the 1937 borders, maybe minus east Prussia", sure. Anything else and Germany falls even faster due to civil conflict.
 
Well due to Operation Anthropoid neatly taking Heydrich out of the picture thankfully don't have to face the scenario of him taking over.


Assuming the "good" Germans win such a civil war, a negotiated settlement to the war and military-led government might be a likely result.
Highly unlikely, looking at the demands that the plotters were making there was just no way in hell that the Allies would ever seriously consider, let alone actually agree to, them. And at this point in the war the idea of 'good' Germans just isn't going to fly. As far as the Allies are concerned this is the second war in twenty odd years that the Germans have started and dragged them into, from their perspective - let's not get into whether it was correct or not, they're not going to stop until Germany is fully defeated and they make sure that it doesn't happen again for a third time.


Germany is still unconditionally defeated as IOTL, surviving barely any longer.
I don't know, if anyone even vaguely sane and sensible winds up in charge they're going to be better than Hitler and possibly allow things to drag on a bit longer. Now I'm not talking about years and years, but an extra six months to a year maybe? Just look at why the British decided to not go through with Operation Foxley which was the mission to assassinate Hitler, there was serious debate over whether Hitler was actually better for the Allies in place considering what a complete disaster he was.
 
The SS v the rest of the German forces. Who would now lead the SS and how big was the SS by this point? I don't think the SS was very big in North Africa if there where any there at all. If the WAillies do not, at least, consider the offer from the new Germany, the top brass can do whatever that want without Hitler saying no to everything.
 
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Highly unlikely, looking at the demands that the plotters were making there was just no way in hell that the Allies would ever seriously consider, let alone actually agree to, them. And at this point in the war the idea of 'good' Germans just isn't going to fly. As far as the Allies are concerned this is the second war in twenty odd years that the Germans have started and dragged them into, from their perspective - let's not get into whether it was correct or not, they're not going to stop until Germany is fully defeated and they make sure that it doesn't happen again for a third time.

....

The Unconditional Surrender policy had already been made public in January 1943. Seven months later when the Italians imprisoned Mussolini and offered to change sides the Allies were still 'harsh'. Unlikely the Germans would be cut a bit of slack.
 
I don't know, if anyone even vaguely sane and sensible winds up in charge they're going to be better than Hitler and possibly allow things to drag on a bit longer. Now I'm not talking about years and years, but an extra six months to a year maybe? Just look at why the British decided to not go through with Operation Foxley which was the mission to assassinate Hitler, there was serious debate over whether Hitler was actually better for the Allies in place considering what a complete disaster he was.

By 1943 Nazi Germany was going to be defeated within 1-2 years regardless of what changes in leadership it had. The Red Army was simply too powerful, and Nazi germany had no better strategic options available to it.
 
The allies and the Soviets will continue to demand unconditional surrender, so the war will keep on.

With Himmler and Heydrich both out, the SS will not have much clout. It is not as large as it will become, and most of it is at the front under command of Heer Generals. I think we can count about 9 divisions plus some independent volunteer brigades, and none of them are close to Berlin at the time. Several of these divisions were raised in February and March 1943 though, and work had started to raise a lot of other divisions. But the SS is not as strong Spring 1943 as they would be Summer 1944.

Bormann's power was based on his closeness to Hitler. I have a hard time seeing him being successful in a power struggle - he can rally parts of the party, but the party has been weak and powerless since the night of the long knives and the dissolution of the SA. It does not control any armed forces nor any direct government functions beyond local governors, who are mostly figure heads anyway - the Heer controls most vital institutions, transport and industry.

Speer was fascinated by Hitler, but would most likely work with anyone taking over after him. He lacks the political know-how and the ambition to take over.

Bormann is mostly out of power without Hitler.

Göbbels might be a candidate, but he has little direct control of anything needed to grab power.

Generaloberst Zeitzler, Head of the OKH is probably the best candidate. he was freqently in rows with Hitler and was considered a masterful logistican and a good strategist.

I can see a triumvirate of Zeitzler, Speer and Göbbels sharing power, throwing Bormann a bone to get the party behind them, but the Heer is going to be the real mover and shaker in this and Bormann will slowly be inched out of what little power he has.
 
Germans are convinced that once again they were stabbed in the back, and World War III sees the atomic carpet bombing of the Fatherland.
 
I agree the Allies will still insist on unconditional surrender. I don't think the plotters can hold on to power. hHitler was still popular.I think that there would have been a power struggle that would have hurt the German war effort. wWould whatever new government have sent troops to Italy.
 
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