What if Hitler was much more anti-communist and only attacked Russia?
Do you think France and Great Britian would got invovled?![]()
and if they did would they haved helped Hitler or Stalin?![]()
(my first thread so go easy on the insults please)
Part of the Problem is that Poland has very little to gain from a war with the Soviet Union. Indeed, the peace deal signed between Poland and the Soviet Union didn't surrender as much land as the Soviets were prepared to lose. In the East at least, Poland was a satisfied power. So this makes very little sense even if German-Polish relations were very solid.
And consider that the Soviets would go to war with anyone would offered Transit rights for Germany. Poland's got too much to lose and too little to gain from this kind of matchup. Even limited transit rights would lead to major fighting on Polish soil, which Poland could never accept. And without a territorial claim or some kind of unresolved grievance, this is a not a possible war.
Let's not kid ourselves. War is a very grave thing and thousands if not millions die as a consequence. And the Soviet Union isn't Iraq--no one is going to accept some weaksauce argument for a war against what is clearly a major power. Despite its recent origins Poland's leadership is simply too sane to ever attempt this, and I think most of Europe would follow a similar pattern. Finland and Turkey have historical reasons for a scrap, but that's as far as it goes.
Excellent points Max, especially on the issue of the dangers for Poland relative to the gains. The only ones who would want to war with the Soviets if they don't have to woudl be, uh, crazy racist bastards?
Personally, I think if Germany wanted more land, power, and riches, it should have made defensive alliances in the East and warred solely in the West. The German city of Paris, anyone?![]()
Except the steppe at least looks mostly empty. The West is packed solid with people. Unless Hitler wants to ethnic-cleanse the French, it doesn't seem like a good place to go for living-room.
Although that post might have been intended in Jest, it seems to me that Germany did want to revise its borders at French, Dutch and Belgian expense. I recall that part of France and Belgium was to become German.
Now OTL, this was just a small nibble at their territories. If nothing else, Taking Paris from France is unforgivable--Paris is very much the "Heart" of France, what it means to be French. An expanded Germany would probably go no further than the Seine, unless Germany wants a massive partisan problem in Former France.
So Germany could get some "Living Space" at France's Expense, but I think expelling all Frenchmen from mainland France is just overkill and too difficult to work out. Try a smaller slice instead.
This is not entirely correct. Unofficial (but really popular) view was that Poland should be "from sea to sea", meaning from Baltic to Black sea, and officially pre-war Poland considered itself successor state of the Rzeczpospolita. Therefore Poland had a lot to gain from joining Germans.Part of the Problem is that Poland has very little to gain from a war with the Soviet Union. Indeed, the peace deal signed between Poland and the Soviet Union didn't surrender as much land as the Soviets were prepared to lose. In the East at least, Poland was a satisfied power. So this makes very little sense even if German-Polish relations were very solid.
Threat of Soviets going into war could actually push Poles toward Hitler. Both Poland and USSR were pretty paranoid in their pre-war dealings with each other and mere possibility of Soviet Union having enough forces to attack Poland (not any actual Soviet plan to do it) could (and nearly did) drive Poles into arms of Satan himself, not just his aspiring underling Hitler. I would go as far as to say that without guarantees from England and France Polish-German alliance against USSR becomes inevitable.And consider that the Soviets would go to war with anyone would offered Transit rights for Germany. Poland's got too much to lose and too little to gain from this kind of matchup. Even limited transit rights would lead to major fighting on Polish soil, which Poland could never accept.
Finland is almost as convenient route to invade USSR as Alaska is to invade Continental USA and Turks could not do anything against Russians unless outnumber them 1:10 for a good century before WWII (in 1917 only Russian Revolution saved Istanbul from falling to Russian hands and in 1878 Russian stopped in Istanbul's suburbs under threat from British Navy). That leaves deep scar on nation's desire to enter a war. OTL Turks were only willing to pick up spoils once Soviet Union crumble post-Barbarossa, but didn't have smallest desire to do anything before that.Finland and Turkey have historical reasons for a scrap, but that's as far as it goes.