Interesting point I hadn't thought of. One big diference is the geography. Germany directly needs Italian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian (and Finnish, too) help in the war against the USSR. Japan was half a world away and showed no inclination to go to war with the USSR anyway. I think Hitler's European allies would be likely to realize this and presume Hitler would be unlikely to ditch them. Also, what could they do about it anyway? They were hopelessly in bed with Germany and (as Yugoslavia showed and Italy later found out) they would be unable to break with Germany without being pummeled. I doubt that too many lessions would be drawn from German abandonment of Japan.
Hitler doesn't Declare war on America in support of Japan
- Thread starter SAVORYapple
- Start date
Interesting point I hadn't thought of. One big diference is the geography. Germany directly needs Italian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian (and Finnish, too) help in the war against the USSR. Japan was half a world away and showed no inclination to go to war with the USSR anyway. I think Hitler's European allies would be likely to realize this and presume Hitler would be unlikely to ditch them. Also, what could they do about it anyway? They were hopelessly in bed with Germany and (as Yugoslavia showed and Italy later found out) they would be unable to break with Germany without being pummeled. I doubt that too many lessions would be drawn from German abandonment of Japan.
Shadow Master
Banned
The debate seems alive and well, but a big snag is that this POD happens AFTER Barbarossa has commenced. I cannot see a Nazi Germany beating the USSR under any but ideal circumstances (and even then, it most definately is not going to be a walk in the park), but this thread's OP didn't allow for such an early departure from OTL.
I am in the middle of a somewhat busy semester, and don't have all that much time to contribute threads to the forum community. Still, this idea deserves to be examined (IMHO) and to that end I once again ask the question:
Should I create a thread where Germany keeps it's options open?
I would envision a situation where Germany develops a better (or ANY)
overall war plan, that stresses making sure to fight one just one front at a time, or at least forbids adding additional enemies before making peace (not a mere cease-fire, but peace) with the enemy of the moment. This would mean that Germany would not launch Barbarossa in the summer if they have failed with the BoB. Instead, Hitler would look at trying diplomacy as a way to end his war with the UK.
On this, I would invite everyone to think about the situation in summer 1940, and offer ideas for just what kind of a peace Germany could offer to France, that differs from OTL and solves Germanys historical difficulties with access to world trade vis-a-vis the UK? For instance, Germany shall maintain a small army of occupation in France, and have full Naval and Air forces basing rights until such time as the war ends? Another part of such a peace could be a mandantory clause that requires an active military alliance against any country that makes war on Germany for X amount of years, forbids France to have a ground army on french soil, meaning that the entirety of the French ground forces would have to be deployed abroad for the duration of hostilities in the ETO.
Any such treaties could be made with the governments (legit or otherwise) of the occupied nations.
More later.
I am in the middle of a somewhat busy semester, and don't have all that much time to contribute threads to the forum community. Still, this idea deserves to be examined (IMHO) and to that end I once again ask the question:
Should I create a thread where Germany keeps it's options open?
I would envision a situation where Germany develops a better (or ANY)
overall war plan, that stresses making sure to fight one just one front at a time, or at least forbids adding additional enemies before making peace (not a mere cease-fire, but peace) with the enemy of the moment. This would mean that Germany would not launch Barbarossa in the summer if they have failed with the BoB. Instead, Hitler would look at trying diplomacy as a way to end his war with the UK.On this, I would invite everyone to think about the situation in summer 1940, and offer ideas for just what kind of a peace Germany could offer to France, that differs from OTL and solves Germanys historical difficulties with access to world trade vis-a-vis the UK? For instance, Germany shall maintain a small army of occupation in France, and have full Naval and Air forces basing rights until such time as the war ends? Another part of such a peace could be a mandantory clause that requires an active military alliance against any country that makes war on Germany for X amount of years, forbids France to have a ground army on french soil, meaning that the entirety of the French ground forces would have to be deployed abroad for the duration of hostilities in the ETO.
Any such treaties could be made with the governments (legit or otherwise) of the occupied nations.
More later.