BW, the OP and Plan 3. Might be interesting to see who ends up in charge.
I don't have a clear vision on the OP... just a lot of oh no it can't be him's; that I am kind of leaning towards Ribbentrop taking over the government tells you what a confused and disorganized time that exact moment was in the nazi party and the army's history
the German government actually having a succession that doesn't degenerate into anarchy or people shooting each other might honestly be ASB at that exact moment and its very difficult to determine who would come out the winner in that; unless I took some liberty with the OP and had Hitler die; but not instantly...maybe a heart attack that he awakes from; heavily weakened, and dies ten days later; so he has a chance to say exactly who he wants in charge instead of everyone trying to figure it out for themselves
Interesting. Any possibility of Hausser and/or Steiner gaining control of the military?
I don't really think so... the waffen ss was such a tiny little thing then
My mind circles to Rundstedt to play the senior patriarch Hindenberg type role... he or Bock are probably the only officers who could reliably command the respect of the army poster boys at that particular moment
Do you think they would disband the Waffen-SS, or just consolidate the current divisions and halt further expansion?
The only cost is that millions of Soviet citizens will die en route. Let's face it, Stalin doesn't care how many of his people die. So this is a big win alongside a very low cost in terms of what Stalin cares about.
Is Stalin so secure in his position that he can afford to bleed the Soviet forces and citizenry for a lot longer than in OTL, potentially well into 1946, without fear of political repercussions on the Soviet home front?
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How about the Germans get the Russian half of Poland from Sep 1, 1939? Finland gets back its pre Winter War borders and Rumania gets back the hunk of territory it ceded to the Russians? The Russians get to keep the Baltic states. All prisoners are exchanged and there are no reperations.
Not an ideal settlement by any means but Stalin might well accept that rather than continue this war. For the Germans this frees up millions of soldiers and thousands of tanks and planes that can now be used to defend Italy and the rest of Europe.
David Irving gaining divine powers?I wonder, if this POD can actually cause the allies to fight both the axis and the soviets???
Again only if the Soviet high-command is actively working for the Germans and are nice enough not to use their 2 to 1 superiority in infantry, 4 to 1 superiorty in artillery, 5/6 to 1 superiorty in tanks and control of the air to launch attacks along the enitre front smashing through German defensive lines in one or more places along the entire front and throwing Manstein's ''back-hand blow'' into the dustbin.Astrodragon
While Manstein's reputation is possibly inflated, not least by himselfI think his plan for absorbing an initial Soviet attack then hitting their exposed flank and pinning the force against the coast could have been very effective. Not likely to make major territorial gains and would still be a bloody battle. However likely to limit Soviet gains [and hence their ability to recruit new conscripts] and inflict heavy human and material losses.
It might be enough, with a new government in Germany, to persuade the two to make peace, although this would likely still fall over the question of what borders.
Not a chance in hell if anything the Soviets would get the German half of Poland as a buffer. They're the ones who are obviously on the winning side.
They'd also want the Germans to repay them for all material losses (livestock, industry etc) they caused to the U.S.S.R and send back the slave labourers who were vital to the German war economy by 1942 onwards.
For this to happen we have to assume Stalin is a Gereman agent working for their interests, not his own.![]()
David Irving gaining divine powers?
Again only if the Soviet high-command is actively working for the Germans and are nice enough not to use their 2 to 1 superiority in infantry, 4 to 1 superiorty in artillery, 5/6 to 1 superiorty in tanks and control of the air to launch attacks along the enitre front smashing through German defensive lines in one or more places along the entire front and throwing Manstein's ''back-hand blow'' into the dustbin.
Is Stalin so secure in his position that he can afford to bleed the Soviet forces and citizenry for a lot longer than in OTL, potentially well into 1946, without fear of political repercussions on the Soviet home front?
By the time manpower losses for the Soviet Union becomes a significant factor affecting Soviet strategy, it will be 1945.