Hitler Dies 1939, no war. Modern day....

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Eurofed

Banned
Minor nitpick: They were treated as liberators in the West Ukraine, the Baltic States, and Poland. They were not treated as liberators in traditional Soviet territory, for the most peart. There were collaboraters in the Ukraine, of course, and the Caucasus, but getting to the Caucasus is a whole nother kettle of fish.

Counter-nitpick: they were treated as liberators both for national reasons (escape Russian yoke) and for policial-economic ones (escape Sovit Communism). Both motivations were valid for non-Russian territories but the appeal of escaping hellish Stalinist command economy & secret police may easliy exist for many Russians too. They woud lack the nationalistic motivation to rebel (which if anything may motivate some to fight the invasions) but they have the political one (esp. if the Europeans take steps to show that Russia shall have a livelihood even after Western victory).
 
We all know from the history simulator Red Alert that if there was no Hitler, Stalin would try to conquer the Earth!:rolleyes:
 
I think that without Hitler, Stalin would try to take at least part of Eastern Europe, but nothing more. Germany, France, and the UK would have some kind of pact against the USSR and not allow it to expand too far west.

However, Stalin would be happy to contend with Japan in China and by extension, the rest of Asia. We might see a Russo-Japan war in China rather than World War 2, and to counter Russia expansion in Asia, Euro-America actions that would lead directly to a Cold War.
 

Germaniac

Donor
Your missing the biggest problem, without the rapid and successful blitzkrieg conquests Germany's economy won't have a leg to stand on. The economy is built on the rapid rearmament of the Nation and without a war the people will begin to demand Goods and services which they have been deprived. The Tax revenue coming in cannot support the Military/Goods/Services that Germany needs to provide for its people. General Conscription kept the Unemployment rate low, Inflation was sky high, everything was paid for with more and more paper money, and the captured reserves in Austria and Czechoslovakia could only last for so long.

Post Hitler Germany will be filled with HUGE unemployment similar to the great recession. It will terrible in Germany after!
 

Eurofed

Banned
I think that without Hitler, Stalin would try to take at least part of Eastern Europe, but nothing more. Germany, France, and the UK would have some kind of pact against the USSR and not allow it to expand too far west.

However, Stalin would be happy to contend with Japan in China and by extension, the rest of Asia. We might see a Russo-Japan war in China rather than World War 2, and to counter Russia expansion in Asia, Euro-America actions that would lead directly to a Cold War.

This is possible, but as other posters have noted, the Euro powers could easily decide to go at war with Stalin if he expands in Eastern Europe, instead of just Cold War containment.
 

Deleted member 1487

Your missing the biggest problem, without the rapid and successful blitzkrieg conquests Germany's economy won't have a leg to stand on. The economy is built on the rapid rearmament of the Nation and without a war the people will begin to demand Goods and services which they have been deprived. The Tax revenue coming in cannot support the Military/Goods/Services that Germany needs to provide for its people. General Conscription kept the Unemployment rate low, Inflation was sky high, everything was paid for with more and more paper money, and the captured reserves in Austria and Czechoslovakia could only last for so long.

Post Hitler Germany will be filled with HUGE unemployment similar to the great recession. It will terrible in Germany after!


So they transition to a consumer product economy. Yes, public debt and inflation are soaring, but when money is spent on something else than the military, things can still pick up sustainably.
 

Eurofed

Banned
Your missing the biggest problem, without the rapid and successful blitzkrieg conquests Germany's economy won't have a leg to stand on. The economy is built on the rapid rearmament of the Nation and without a war the people will begin to demand Goods and services which they have been deprived. The Tax revenue coming in cannot support the Military/Goods/Services that Germany needs to provide for its people. General Conscription kept the Unemployment rate low, Inflation was sky high, everything was paid for with more and more paper money, and the captured reserves in Austria and Czechoslovakia could only last for so long.

Post Hitler Germany will be filled with HUGE unemployment similar to the great recession. It will terrible in Germany after!

I'm aware of the problem, but are you sure you are not exaggerating, speaking of a return to great depression levels of unemployment? As far as I was aware, it was an overspending crisis, rather like our current one. Curbing military expenses and shifting to a consumer product economy should help substantially.
 
This is possible, but as other posters have noted, the Euro powers could easily decide to go at war with Stalin if he expands in Eastern Europe, instead of just Cold War containment.
That even more empathizes Asian and not European expansion.
 

Eurofed

Banned
That even more empathizes Asian and not European expansion.

This is correct, but Stalin could still easily misjudge the will to fight of the Euro powers and grab some EE territory that lands himself in a world war he had not foreseen. Such mistakes do happen (cfr. Iraq 1990, Argentine 1982) and Stalin himself was prone to them (Barbarossa, Korean War). This is to say that there is decent ground to write such a mistake as the trigger for a "Red Alert" WWII if one chooses so.
 
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