hitler dead in 1932, what next?

What would the consequences be if after the election results of November 1932, Adolf Hitler died in an accident? Who takes over? Is it another member of the Nazi party or a member of the SDP?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
If Hitler's killed before 3rd December then ... most likely at first by the Gregor Strasser lead NSDAP backed further chancellorship of Schleicher, most likely followed by a complete take-over by the Strasser lead NSDAP.

... after Strasser and his 2nd-in-command Paul Schulz have ... sorted some possible inner-party 'quarrels'.


Btw, @VVD0D95
Where the heck did you get the idea, that a SPD member might be able to seize power at this point in time ???

Even today the first thing the SPD does if any even only marginally prominent single person emerges above the rest as a possible sort of "leader" is
BACKSTABBING him by themself.
 
If Hitler's killed before 3rd December then ... most likely at first by the Gregor Strasser lead NSDAP backed further chancellorship of Schleicher, most likely followed by a complete take-over by the Strasser lead NSDAP.

... after Strasser and his 2nd-in-command Paul Schulz have ... sorted some possible inner-party 'quarrels'.


Btw, @VVD0D95
Where the heck did you get the idea, that a SPD member might be able to seize power at this point in time ???

Even today the first thing the SPD does if any even only marginally prominent single person emerges above the rest as a possible sort of "leader" is
BACKSTABBING him by themself.

Interesting what consequences does this have for Germany? And ah lol my bad, had a brain fart
 
Without a nazi government the US continues to underwrite loans to Germany. The Great Depression comes and goes, the destructive tariff war gradually abates. Perhaps a version of the Beretton Woods Agreement appropriate to this world economy emerges. Japan may eventually go to war with China. In that case the US and Europe will be less well prepared for a Asian or Pacific war, lacking the pressure of a European war to push industrial mobilization. France was on course to spend millions on a army and fortifications before the nazis emerged. Its liable to continue that for another decade, or perhaps two. Preparing to repel the 100,000 man Reichswehr.
 
Without a nazi government the US continues to underwrite loans to Germany. The Great Depression comes and goes, the destructive tariff war gradually abates. Perhaps a version of the Beretton Woods Agreement appropriate to this world economy emerges. Japan may eventually go to war with China. In that case the US and Europe will be less well prepared for a Asian or Pacific war, lacking the pressure of a European war to push industrial mobilization. France was on course to spend millions on a army and fortifications before the nazis emerged. Its liable to continue that for another decade, or perhaps two. Preparing to repel the 100,000 man Reichswehr.
Why wouldn’t there be a Nazi government? Strasser was still a Nazi himself
 
Why wouldn’t there be a Nazi government? Strasser was still a Nazi himself
I suppose it comes down to how much you put the rise of the Nazis to Hitler himself.

Even after the election in 1933 Hitler could still have failed to take the Chancellorship.

1932 still is early enough for that a Nazi government is not a mortal lock.
 
I suppose it comes down to how much you put the rise of the Nazis to Hitler himself.

Even after the election in 1933 Hitler could still have failed to take the Chancellorship.

1932 still is early enough for that a Nazi government is not a mortal lock.
Interesting who would've taken over then if not them?
 
Interesting who would've taken over then if not them?

They never had a majority by themselves. If the DNVP doesn't cooperate with them, or if the Communists decide to work with the SPD and the Centre to keep the nationalist right out of power, there's a chance they don't end up holding the Chancellor's office, and passing the Enabling Act would have been impossible if the DNVP and the Centre/BVP had opposed it. So maybe the Weimar Republic just keeps bumping along with unstable governments and legislation sometimes passed through emergency presidential decree, but still no Nazis.
 
They never had a majority by themselves. If the DNVP doesn't cooperate with them, or if the Communists decide to work with the SPD and the Centre to keep the nationalist right out of power, there's a chance they don't end up holding the Chancellor's office, and passing the Enabling Act would have been impossible if the DNVP and the Centre/BVP had opposed it. So maybe the Weimar Republic just keeps bumping along with unstable governments and legislation sometimes passed through emergency presidential decree, but still no Nazis.

Interesting, is it possible that the communists could've taken over completely?
 
Interesting, is it possible that the communists could've taken over completely?

Not without a lot of guns, I don't think. There was considerable bad blood between them and the SPD, and they had little love for the Weimar Republic per se - the only reason for them to work with the SPD and the Centre would have been to keep the Nazis and DNVP out of power. And I can't imagine any scenario where Hindenburg appoints a Communist as Chancellor or where the army and police wouldn't do their best to put down a Communist uprising.

So yeah - they'd need a lot of guns.
 
Not without a lot of guns, I don't think. There was considerable bad blood between them and the SPD, and they had little love for the Weimar Republic per se - the only reason for them to work with the SPD and the Centre would have been to keep the Nazis and DNVP out of power. And I can't imagine any scenario where Hindenburg appoints a Communist as Chancellor or where the army and police wouldn't do their best to put down a Communist uprising.

So yeah - they'd need a lot of guns.

Alright interesting, so without a Nazi germany, is it likely that World War Two as we know it doesn't happen, and that Germany continues to muddle along missing its potential?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
1932 still is early enough for that a Nazi government is not a mortal lock.
Would you mind looking at the OP ?
We are talking about a time AFTER November 1932.
Even after the election in 1933 Hitler could still have failed to take the Chancellorship.
Erhm ... Hitler became chancellor on 20th January 1933.
He WAS already chancellor at the march election 1933, which to 'pimp' he was in the proper position, being chancellor. ... though he still stayed away from pimping them, as the communists teached the world it could be done (like 98 % votes).
I suppose it comes down to how much you put the rise of the Nazis to Hitler himself.
Well in winter 1932/1933 Hitler HAD already done what he could ... without being in power.

Actually he was in a rather precarious situation. Many of the Nazi followers regretted him not having taken power yet or at least participating. He was not only by Gregor Strasser accused of his "all-or-nothing" attitude he had taken. This had costed him the losses of the November election. Wihout Strasser making an electioneering campaign more on themes (like working programs on deficit spending) than on the person of Hitler, the Novermber election most likely would have been even more a true desaster.

If - for whatever reasons - Gregor Strasser had NOT backed away and let all things go, even with a living Hitler the latters political fate would be ... questionable.
 
Hindenburg would never have appointed the much more left wing Strasser as Chancellor, nor would the DVNP have agreed to join him in a coalition, nor would the great industrial and banking barons have acquiesced.
Hitler was no further to the left in economic matters than the centrist Social Democrats (who they had had in office before without the roof falling in), was very keen on supporting agriculture (which the Junkers liked) and was very pro building up the armed forces. Hindenburg and von Papen thought they had found another Emil Noske. They underestimated Hitler but wouldn't have had such a rose tinted view of Strasser who was in favour of land reform and nationalising industry and banking in any circumstances.
Technically, the deputy leader Hess would have been caretaker leader of the Party until new leadership elections were held.
 
Hindenburg would never have appointed the much more left wing Strasser as Chancellor, nor would the DVNP have agreed to join him in a coalition, nor would the great industrial and banking barons have acquiesced.
Hitler was no further to the left in economic matters than the centrist Social Democrats (who they had had in office before without the roof falling in), was very keen on supporting agriculture (which the Junkers liked) and was very pro building up the armed forces. Hindenburg and von Papen thought they had found another Emil Noske. They underestimated Hitler but wouldn't have had such a rose tinted view of Strasser who was in favour of land reform and nationalising industry and banking in any circumstances.
Technically, the deputy leader Hess would have been caretaker leader of the Party until new leadership elections were held.

Interesting, would there have been another election then?
 
I mean an election of a NSDAP leader not a Reichstag election. Strasser looks the most likely but he wasn't charismatic or a good speaker apparently. Die Grosse Hermann could be in with a chance, he was a lively speaker and a WWI air ace to boot.
 
Japan may eventually go to war with China. In that case the US and Europe will be less well prepared for a Asian or Pacific war, lacking the pressure of a European war to push industrial mobilization.

Japan's invasion of Manchuria was already in full swing at this point and further expansion into China was going to happen no matter who was in charge of Germany. It was a very wag-the-dog situation where the Japanese Army was manufacturing crisis as an excuse to occupy Chinese land and then the government back home had to accept it as fait accompli.

What would possibly change though is Japan's position on military action against the other Great Powers if Germany wasn't distracting Europe. Depending on the fallout in Germany, Japan may very well take foreign sanctions and sternly worded letters as just the cost of annexing more of China and carry on without a Pacific war.
 
Would you mind looking at the OP ?
We are talking about a time AFTER November 1932.
Erhm ... Hitler became chancellor on 20th January 1933.
He WAS already chancellor at the march election 1933, which to 'pimp' he was in the proper position, being chancellor. ... though he still stayed away from pimping them, as the communists teached the world it could be done (like 98 % votes).
Well in winter 1932/1933 Hitler HAD already done what he could ... without being in power.

Actually he was in a rather precarious situation. Many of the Nazi followers regretted him not having taken power yet or at least participating. He was not only by Gregor Strasser accused of his "all-or-nothing" attitude he had taken. This had costed him the losses of the November election. Wihout Strasser making an electioneering campaign more on themes (like working programs on deficit spending) than on the person of Hitler, the Novermber election most likely would have been even more a true desaster.

If - for whatever reasons - Gregor Strasser had NOT backed away and let all things go, even with a living Hitler the latters political fate would be ... questionable.

Bad editing on my part.

I meant to put 1932 instead of 1933.

You are quite correct that he was already Chancellor by 33.
 
So, quick query, Hitler is dead shortly after November, 1932, the Nazis are in turmoil, possibilities include a continued Weimar Republic, or the nazis potentially taking over once more, under new leadership. Which seems mroe likely?
 
Continued Weimar Republic is most likely. Strasserite Nazis are more likely to be seen as a threat than as someone to be co-opted, Goeringite Nazis would be more favourably regarded but I think time would be needed to assess whether he actually had control of the party programme and get a feel of him - he wouldn't get the deal Hitler was offered in 1933 (though it might be seen as an option for 1934 or 1935) and a successor to Hindenburg will have to be elected in 1934 who probably will not be as old and tired or quite as right wing. More likelihood of a Hohenzollern restoration as a threat to Weimar than either the Communists or Nazis.
 
So, quick query, Hitler is dead shortly after November, 1932, the Nazis are in turmoil, possibilities include a continued Weimar Republic, or the nazis potentially taking over once more, under new leadership. Which seems mroe likely?
What do you mean by "shortly"? Things moved pretty quickly between Nov '32 and Jan '33, recall that Schleicher only took the chancellorship in Dec '32.

Continued Weimar Republic is most likely. Strasserite Nazis are more likely to be seen as a threat than as someone to be co-opted, Goeringite Nazis would be more favourably regarded but I think time would be needed to assess whether he actually had control of the party programme and get a feel of him - he wouldn't get the deal Hitler was offered in 1933 (though it might be seen as an option for 1934 or 1935) and a successor to Hindenburg will have to be elected in 1934 who probably will not be as old and tired or quite as right wing. More likelihood of a Hohenzollern restoration as a threat to Weimar than either the Communists or Nazis.
The most pressing short-term concern is a Reichswehr coup against parliament, possibly leading to civil war.
 
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