Hitler copy Stalin

Given that the war for the USSR lasted 4 years, 3 out of 4 years is the majority of the war...so the point still stands.

On the other hand Hitler became more hands on over the course of 6 years of war.

Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania might all have a quibble with the "only four years" for the USSR. So actually might Japan.
 
Just to note, the Purges weren't the only thing that hurt the Red Army. There were major deficiencies in officer training that went back to the early 1930s. Their mobilization plans were vastly out of date and were only haphazardly updated over time, leading to major problems including a shortage of trained officers even before the Purge. War games were also often rigged for political reasons. Essentially the Purges were the final crippling blow to a Soviet military system that, while excellent in most respects, had major deficiencies that can't be attributed to a single event.

He was very involved, but he give his generals a lot more latitude than he otherwise would have.

Actually in early 1945 Stalin was giving his generals less latitude and was tightening his grip on them. In debates over the planning of the Vistula-Oder Offensive Zhukov and Rokossovsky seriously angered Stalin, and Rokossovsky warned Zhukov to temper his language lest he befall the fate Rokossovsky suffered when he was arrested and tortured for several months during the Purges. Stalin was already looking ahead to the post war era and didn't want "Napoleons" who could subvert his control of the military.
 
In the last days of WW2, Hitler at his bunker said that his bigest mistake was that he didn't clear the army from the generals as Stalin did. If he done it?

Excellent, it would be great to see the Nazis clear out some of the best things they had going for them. :D
 
In the last days of WW2, Hitler at his bunker said that his bigest mistake was that he didn't clear the army from the generals as Stalin did. If he done it?

Did you get this idea from the movie Der Untergang? You know, the scene everyone parodies with funny subtitles in its actual translation?:D

"Mein Fuhrer, Steiner... Steiner did not have sufficient forces, and the attack was called off".
"All Generals are traitors"
. Long rant about cowardly generals. "I should have killed them all off like Stalin". Additional ranting. Followed by sad Hitler lamenting that the war is lost.

I don't know whether Hitler said this in real life.

Now if Hitler actually did purge the Generals and replace them with whoever he likes, he would just get in the way more. Germany could well be defeated even faster.
 
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Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania might all have a quibble with the "only four years" for the USSR.

I'm sure they would, but you didn't refer to that and that isn't what was being discussed (see how I was referring to Julian's point about the war). You referred to the "last three years of the war". Presumably the Eastern Front since the Soviet-Finnish War didn't last long enough for Stalin to give his generals more latitude during "only" the last 3 years of a war that was over and done with in less than a year....

Now if you would like to discuss that then go right ahead. It's not like it would matter anyway since the Winter War lasted all of what? 4 months? My point remains that for the majority of the time the USSR was actually involved in WWII, Stalin gave his generals a lot more latitude than under normal circumstances.


So actually might Japan.

Soviet involvement in the campaign against Japan - basically a month in 1945 (and this after the Eastern Front lasted 1 and 1/2 months shy of 4 years...)

1945-1941 = 4.


Actually in early 1945 Stalin was giving his generals less latitude and was tightening his grip on them. In debates over the planning of the Vistula-Oder Offensive Zhukov and Rokossovsky seriously angered Stalin, and Rokossovsky warned Zhukov to temper his language lest he befall the fate Rokossovsky suffered when he was arrested and tortured for several months during the Purges. Stalin was already looking ahead to the post war era and didn't want "Napoleons" who could subvert his control of the military.



I don't why either of you seem intent on holding out against a point which Snake himself actually made (and which he now seems to be arguing against oddly enough). The sum time of the USSR being involved in conflict during the 1939-1945 period is about 54 and 1/2 months if we include the Winter War, Khalkhin Gol (which started before WWII began actually), World War II's Eastern Front and World War II's Manchuria campaign. I won't even bother including the occupation of the Baltic states since the Balts gave in without a fight. Now in what parts of the above 54 1/2 months did Stalin not loosen his control over the generals? Well, the Winter War for sure (3 1/2 months). Probably against Japan too (1 month). During the first year of the Eastern front (12 months) and apparently during early 1945 (so call it 5 months). Was he micromanaging Khalkhin Gol (4 months)? I certainly never got that impression, but let's throw it in there too. Note though that to be more exacting between World War II's official beginning and official end the USSR was involved for about 50 and 1/2 months of conflict which was 4 years and 2.5 months.

3 1/2 + 1 + 12 + 5 + 4 = 25 1/2. Which means for at least 54% of the time Stalin gave his generals a lot of latitude than they would otherwise come to expect. And that's a conservative figure given that I doubt Khalkhin Gol should be included (for two reasons - I doubt he micromanaged it the way Hitler did in his own later years and all but the last 16 days of that battle occurred before WWII officially began anyway) and the type of micromanaging Stalin would have done for say the Winter War would have been more involved than for say the Vistula-Oder Offensive. Throw out Khalkhin Gol and that figure bumps up to nearly 60%. So unless Snake is wrong and willing to admit that he was entirely mistaken and that in actuality Stalin never gave his generals any latitude whatsoever and was micromanaging the Red Army in a similar way to Hitler was doing with his own army towards the end, then my original point is correct and is certainly not contradicted by any of these quibblings:

He was very involved, (note I admit he was very involved) but he gave his generals a lot more latitude than he otherwise would have.
 
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I'll bet this thread was inspired by this...
"ich hätte gut daran getan, vor Jahren alle höheren Offiziere liquidieren zu lassen, wie Stalin! "

...and since that line came from a movie, I'm wondering if he really did say anything to that effect or not.
 
So, is the real question, if Hitler had acted more like Stalin, could Germany have had better results?

Yes.

Great results, no.

Better in regard to weapon production. With Soviet style production, total weapon production while of significantly lower quality of fit and finish, would have been significantly larger.

The wasteful practise of waging an internal war against productive elements of ones own society would not have occurred. There still would have been a lot of Germans killed by their own government, but not for no reason, but their religion, sexual orientation, or handicapped status. They would have been killed because they got in the way of modernization, or due to Politics.

Germany could have won WW2 if Hitler had been like Stalin.

And Europe, instead of going through a Hell which almost destroyed it, with horrible Demons doing there best to to prove their is evil, would have nearly died, been even more destroyed and would have emerged into a grey twilight, certainly not good, often bad, ugly, and destructive, but not pure evil.
 
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