Hitler backs Japan earlier

Could Hitler start backing Japan instead of China in either 1933 or 1934

What would be the impact on the Chinese military

Would German Advisers aid the Japanese military

What would be the impact on the Sino-Japanese war
 
Could Hitler start backing Japan instead of China in either 1933 or 1934

What would be the impact on the Chinese military

Would German Advisers aid the Japanese military

What would be the impact on the Sino-Japanese war

Germany is too busy with rearment to back up other countries I don't know if they would even have the resources to do it. Remember it was only in 1939 or 40 that Germany became the monster it became, in 33-34 it had a weak army and I doubt it could provide much to the Japs.

However what I imagine they could do is to set up close ties and ensure Japan participates in Barbarossa (which was in Hitler's plans since the 20s if you believe Mein Kampf), the problem is that such extensive preparations would require Germany to think the USSR was a foe worthy of throwing everything at it and making extensive preparations.

If they set up such close ties Germany might avoid making Molotov-Ribbentrop, which as far as I recall pissed off the Japs a lot because it was done where Khalkhin Gol was ongoing, or warn Japan that this treaty is temporary and guarantee them their support in taking Soviet held territory as soon for their support in Barbarossa.

This may or may not butterfly the Sino-Japanese war away, as I doubt the Japs will want to engage in China when they are preparing for a total war with the Soviets. I don't think Germany could change the military situation in Japan enough to make Khalkhin Gol a success though.
 

Cook

Banned
The immediate impact would be that Germany would need a new source of Tungsten; China was one of their main sources of the strategic metal, and with Germany's credit problems, and the number of countries unwilling to trade with the Nazi regime, finding a replacement source would be problematic.

Historically they lost access to China's Tungsten when Japan joined the Tripartite Agreement, but were able to obtain it from mines in Nationalist Spain.
 
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The immediate impact would be that Germany would need a new source of Tungsten; China was one of their main sources of the strategic metal, and with Germany's credit problems, and the number of countries unwilling to trade with the Nazi regime, finding a replacement source would be problematic.

Historically they lost access to China's Tungsten when Japan joined the Tripartite Agreement, but were able to obtain it from mines in Nationalist Spain.
Germany could get it from japan because Sangdong mine in japanese korea had largest tungsten deposit.
 
Could Hitler start backing Japan instead of China in either 1933 or 1934

Hitler was relatively uninterested in Far Eastern affairs at that time, and the Foreign Ministry, headed by Neurath, tried to maintain a "balanced" policy toward China and Japan. One should remember that German-Chinese economic relations were important then: "German-Chinese trade relations expanded even during the Depression with a growing number of German companies establishing a presence in the country. From seventh place among Germany's export markets in 1929, China was to rise to third place seven years later." https://books.google.com/books?id=X8T248Aer0kC&pg=PA127 By contrast, German industrialists often complained about Japanese competition, Japanese copying of German goods (which they then went on to export at cheaper prices), etc. https://books.google.com/books?id=X8T248Aer0kC&pg=PA128

Of course after the Second Sino-Japanese War started, and Japan occupied most of China's major cities, China could no longer do much for Germany economically. This was one reason for the shift to a pro-Japanese orientation; I go into some of the others at https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ahc-allied-japan-axis-china.438545/#post-16622216
 

Cook

Banned
Germany could get it from japan because Sangdong mine in japanese korea had largest tungsten deposit.

The deposits were large, but the actual rate of production wasn't; production of Tungsten ore in Korea didn't exceed 1000 metric tons until 1935, and Japan's own industries were consuming all of it and still demanding more - Japan would not have had any to export to Germany.
China had minerals, but not industry, Germany had the industry but not the minerals. Japan, thanks to Korea, had some of the minerals, but never enough to satisfy its own insatiable demands.
 
this is not a one way street? Japan was wary of alliance with Germany for most of the 1930's no matter Nazi regime aims.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
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and the number of countries unwilling to trade with the Nazi regime,

Were trade embargoes really a problem for Nazi Germany in the years it had a military mission in China (1933-1938)?

this is not a one way street? Japan was wary of alliance with Germany for most of the 1930's no matter Nazi regime aims.

True - but then Japan was pissed off enough to exit the League, implying a deterioration in relations with its leaders, Britain and France.
 

CalBear

Moderator
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Germany is too busy with rearment to back up other countries I don't know if they would even have the resources to do it. Remember it was only in 1939 or 40 that Germany became the monster it became, in 33-34 it had a weak army and I doubt it could provide much to the Japs.

However what I imagine they could do is to set up close ties and ensure Japan participates in Barbarossa (which was in Hitler's plans since the 20s if you believe Mein Kampf), the problem is that such extensive preparations would require Germany to think the USSR was a foe worthy of throwing everything at it and making extensive preparations.

If they set up such close ties Germany might avoid making Molotov-Ribbentrop, which as far as I recall pissed off the Japs a lot because it was done where Khalkhin Gol was ongoing, or warn Japan that this treaty is temporary and guarantee them their support in taking Soviet held territory as soon for their support in Barbarossa.

This may or may not butterfly the Sino-Japanese war away, as I doubt the Japs will want to engage in China when they are preparing for a total war with the Soviets. I don't think Germany could change the military situation in Japan enough to make Khalkhin Gol a success though.
"Japs"?
 
this is not a one way street? Japan was wary of alliance with Germany for most of the 1930's no matter Nazi regime aims.

True - but then Japan was pissed off enough to exit the League, implying a deterioration in relations with its leaders, Britain and France.

my point was that beginning in 1933 Japan neither needed nor wanted any alliance with Nazi regime whereas KMT China was receptive to German military mission. the Hitler delusion, occurring later, was that he could mediate between the two as if they were more of his Balkan stooges?

the Axis was such a Strange Alliance as compared to Von Seeckt's conception of German-Soviet-Chinese collaboration (or at least non-aggression)
 
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