Hitler and Mussolini both dead August 1941

OTL Hitler and Mussolini visited the Eastern front in August 1941 near Uman. They travelled in Hitlers personal plane. Lets say the plane crashes and everyone on board dies. What happens next???????

Questions
a) I am guessing Goering takes over Germany?
b) I am guessing Ciano Italy?
c) Would Goering be smart enough to avoid war with U.S?
d) Would Goering seek a compromise peace with USSR?
e) Would Italy seek a separate peace in 1941?
 
OTL Hitler and Mussolini visited the Eastern front in August 1941 near Uman. They travelled in Hitlers personal plane. Lets say the plane crashes and everyone on board dies. What happens next???????

Questions
a) I am guessing Goering takes over Germany?
b) I am guessing Ciano Italy?
c) Would Goering be smart enough to avoid war with U.S?
d) Would Goering seek a compromise peace with USSR?
e) Would Italy seek a separate peace in 1941?

a. possible; but a Junta head up by Braustich is more likely
b. possible; or maybe a new stewardship under the king
c. most likely
d. why in august 1941 the axis was winning; and handily at that
e. why the africa corps had just drive the British out of Libya except for Tobruk and the Germans had stomped the Greek's and Yugoslav's
 
a) Yes. Goering is likely to delegate a lot of decisions unlike Hitler and not centralize all decision making. I must disagree with Blairwitch that the most likely result would be a military junta under Brauchitsch. I don't see any evidence of a militarist coup.

b) Likely the Fasicst Grand Council will decide. I am not sure if Ciano will get the vote, although he is likely to be a candidate. I don't know who the other contenders might be.

c) I think it unlikely. At the very last, Goering would likely seek a quid pro quo from Japan to declare war on the Soviet Union in return for Germany's declaration of war against the US. Goering did not have the absurd geopolitical fantasies of Hitler, so the same logic that propelled Hitler to declare war on the US would not have been an issue.

d) Goering may not seek a compromise peace in 1941, but he will likely accept one in 1942. The problem is the different details of what Goering would want, and what Stalin would be willing to give. At the right moment in time, a compromise could be acceptable to both. But a very possible scenario is that at no time would there be the same peace both could want at the same time.

e) Not in 1941. Germans are still master of the continent, and everything is going their way.
 
d) Goering may not seek a compromise peace in 1941, but he will likely accept one in 1942. The problem is the different details of what Goering would want, and what Stalin would be willing to give. At the right moment in time, a compromise could be acceptable to both. But a very possible scenario is that at no time would there be the same peace both could want at the same time.

e) Not in 1941. Germans are still master of the continent, and everything is going their way.

How about in September or October 1941, Goering offers the Dnieper river line as the boundry of Russia. If Russia would actually accept this I could see Goering taking it, allowing him to enjoy being in charge and consolidate power.

OR

December 1943, Germans get the 6th army out of Stalingrad in time (Goering has no need to boast about the Luftwaffe's capabilities any more, he is in charge, a series of defensive battle on the eastern front in 1943 gets the Russians nowhere but a bunch of losses - Russia agrees to the original June 1941 boundries after a phased German withdrawl)

As far as Italy I could see a September 1942 agreement on a return to the June 1940 boundries (minus Ethiopia) in return for Italy going neutral. A secret agreement in place that Italy might do better than her 1940 boundries if Italy joins the good guys later.
 
C. While goering would probably avoid the gratuitous declaraion of war, my gguess is that escalating tensions in the north atlantic lead to wwarrr eventually.
 

abc123

Banned
a) Yes. Goering is likely to delegate a lot of decisions unlike Hitler and not centralize all decision making. I must disagree with Blairwitch that the most likely result would be a military junta under Brauchitsch. I don't see any evidence of a militarist coup.

b) Likely the Fasicst Grand Council will decide. I am not sure if Ciano will get the vote, although he is likely to be a candidate. I don't know who the other contenders might be.

c) I think it unlikely. At the very last, Goering would likely seek a quid pro quo from Japan to declare war on the Soviet Union in return for Germany's declaration of war against the US. Goering did not have the absurd geopolitical fantasies of Hitler, so the same logic that propelled Hitler to declare war on the US would not have been an issue.

d) Goering may not seek a compromise peace in 1941, but he will likely accept one in 1942. The problem is the different details of what Goering would want, and what Stalin would be willing to give. At the right moment in time, a compromise could be acceptable to both. But a very possible scenario is that at no time would there be the same peace both could want at the same time.

e) Not in 1941. Germans are still master of the continent, and everything is going their way.

I agree fully.
;)
 
OTL Hitler and Mussolini visited the Eastern front in August 1941 near Uman. They travelled in Hitlers personal plane. Lets say the plane crashes and everyone on board dies. What happens next???????

Questions
a) I am guessing Goering takes over Germany?
b) I am guessing Ciano Italy?
c) Would Goering be smart enough to avoid war with U.S?
d) Would Goering seek a compromise peace with USSR?
e) Would Italy seek a separate peace in 1941?

a) Quite possibly. Goebbels is just the propaganda minister and a good one, but he's also a sycophant to Hitler with no real political clout in the Nazi party. Bormann and Ribbentrop are not liked by anyone. Himmler and Heydrich arefeared and hated, but the SS is not strong enough for a coup. This leaves Goering and a military junta as the only options.

b) Possibly. I don't know enough to make statements here.

c) Yes, he was not the insane ideologically motivated narcissistic psycho Hitler was although he was corrupt among other things. He'd leave a lot of military decision making with his generals and focus on his realistic goals which were dominance in central and south eastern Europe. This doesn't mean the US won't declare war on the Germans, but such a war would be a lot less popular than OTL's war in Europe considering since this Germany is much "nicer" and more "moderate".

d) In August 1941? No. Perhaps in 1942 he will offer Stalin a Brest-Litovsk v.2.0 peace which will sew the seeds for a future war when Stalin thinks he's ready to exact his vengeance.

e). No, the Africa Corps had kicked British ass so far so why would they? And once the USSR is out in '42, Germany can focus on a Mediterranean strategy. The extra planes and men could be used to take Malta which should make resupply easier.
 
Does Wansee and the final solution happen under Goering???

Mostly likely, to a certain extent. Likely the Jews are deported to the East and put into the ghettos, but I doubt the generals, who would really be running the show, would approve the massive waste of military resources that was the Holocaust. More likely Goering just deports the Jews into captured Soviet territory then abandons them to the Red Army as they make a counter-push. Therefore, he gets rid of the Jews without having to take care of them, and puts the problem on Stalin's back.

Another possible option, if Palestine is conquered, is deporting the Jews there.
 
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