History question on the middle age period (1200)

Thanks guys!

Other thing that trouble me a lot is the appanges system that was employed by the Capetians. Nearly all the gains of Philippe Auguste was give it away by his son and his grand son.

How this thing could be avoided ? How other countries (from western Christianity) handle the issue of inheritance when several sons?

What Louis VIII and Louis IX could do in order to not divide the Royal Demesnes to such degree?

Could, in mentalities back-time, a law to be pass and accepted that restrict the inheritance outside the Kingdom of those appanges? Or to modify the sense of the appanage in order to not give full control on them? Something like the act from 1361 who specify that royal land was inalienable.


I know that there are a lot of stuff and questions... and Big Thanks!
 
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Okay ,

1. The appanage system.

During the Medieval times, land was a the principal source of income. The objective of appanages was to give land (thus income) to the cadet sons, so they could a have revenue and not mess up with the crown. It was a sort of pill given to the younger sons of the King in order to sweeten primogeniture (since they didn't inherit the crown) and to prevent the revolt of younger sons.

2. How this could be avoided ?

Very difficult to say. The system disappeared with the affirmation of nations states (thus royal power) during the XVI century. But after Charles V of France a clear distinction was made between courtesy title and true appanages see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis,_Dauphin_of_France,_Duke_of_Burgundy

The first king who tried it was Charles V of France after he saw that his father John II of France had used this politics too extensively (just look at at Charles'brothers, they were powerful just as him and will control the country's politics after his death). As I said, to limit the appanage system, you will need in my opinion a increase of royal powers and an alternative system for cadet sons.

3.Elsewhere in Europe

English monarchs regularly employed the same method which was brought with Norman and Plantagenet kings. Look at the sons of Edward III ( that is when the eponymous duchies of York and Lancaster appeared). Today, the duchy of Cornwall is the permanent appanage of the Prince of Wales ( with all the revenues), other family titles aren't attached to any revenues and are honorific.

In Scotland, the duchy of Rothesay is a remnant of this period.

In the Kingdom of Jerusalem, the County of Jaffa and Ascalon was given many times as an appanage (see, the French even brought this system in the near East).

In Eastern Europe too, there was I think a same system. But as primogeniture began to be adopted by nearly all Europe's realms, the need to give younger sons land was felt.

4. Of saint Louis and his father

I don't believe they could do anything about that. The appanage system was some kind of tradition dating back the division of the kingdom among all sons under the Merovingian.So I don't they will act against it and face a revolt of their younger sons allied with the barons of the realm.

5. Laws about appanages :

There was a Act of the Parlement de Paris of 1283 on the occasion of the death of Alphonse de Poitiers ,which stated that appanages given by King will come back into its fold at the extinction of the direct line.
However , it seems the rule didn't apply to appanages created before Philippe le Bel (see Mahaut d'Artois,Louis de la Male, who inherited Artois by the right of his mother). After Phillippe le bel, women can no longer inherit appanages but the rule wasn't apply right away.

There is also the famous case of Burgundy, who first an ancient (a the time where women still inherited them) appanage. After the death of Charles the Bold, lawyers still debated if Burgundy was really an appanage or not and if it could reverted to the Crown. For more info go to this wiki (although it is in French) : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apanage#Le_cas_bourguignon

As you can see the laws of inheritance varied over time so it all depends of your POD ( during the golden age of chivalry aka St-Louis'reign, after Philippe le Bel, during the HYW etc.) You should also see the Edict of Moulins although it's a bit late (1566).

Also, with the rise of royal power (Phillipe le Bel ) , the first laws about appanges were made which kind of validates my point of view in which reducing appanages = increasing King's powers.

Interesting fact : the last feudal appanage in France the duchy of Bourbon which was integrated into the royal demesne in 1523.


PS: If you have any questions or other things please feel free to send me a personal message
 
*Cough* Revolt of Henri II's sons *Cough*
*Cough* Barons' Wars *Cough*


1) Pratically all Plantagenet demesne in France was a political puzzle (just like Aquitaine was before them).
2) Is there exemples of such inheritance outside the kingdom in France? Henri II was in all regards an Angevine lord, even if he had titles in England, without any real tentative of unifying the inherited titles and the insular's.
3) And you hadn't a real equivalent of crown lands in Castille, or HRE. Does that really means France at Bouvines was less unified than them?

At the risk of repeating myself once more, feudal unification doesn't come from a crownkemong ame where, more you catch titles, more you won, but from the acceptance of the kingship as hegemonic. It happened in France, and not in England where the kings had fairly soon to compose with nobility and Parlementarian features.


As said above, the political and economical developement of Flanders isn't essentially different from what you can have in Northern France at this point, the large difference being in more important and lasting autonomies that existed because Flemish rulers had to compromise with their towns.

In the scope of a Capetian takeover (that's really unlikely to take Barbant and Hainaut in the same row), such events are very possibly butterflied, making flemish cities looking like Norman ones on this regard.

By english model, I suppose you meant without the periodic kingdom-scale revolts? If that, OTL is what you may search : Capetian balliage system was inspired by Henri II's reforms.


But if we compared England to France at the beginning of the HYW, England is much more unified than France ( a puzzle of semi independent principalities) see: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerre_de_Cent_Ans#Royaume_de_France

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerre_de_Cent_Ans#Royaume_d.27Angleterre
 
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