(Historical) Annexxations/Mergers We Would Have Liked To See.

A union between say Syria, Jordan, Hatay (Antakiyya), Palestine, Iraq, etc might be more plausible. The issue is, when you add all of Arabia, Egypt, North Africa, parts of Iran, etc... Somalia, Afar, Sudan, etc is simply too much, these areas were not even part of the Abbasid or Umayyad caliphate are not Arab in any serious sense.

Iraq comes with many issues, it is divided religiously, ethnically and economically. Most of the southern reaches are heavily Shi’a and these in some areas are so dense that Sunni rule is accepted only through repression and or with amounts of autonomy or the historical usage of taqiyyah. The upper Euphrates especially, along Karbala was untenable for even unity to the Sunni areas of Anbar frankly and is distinct from Bagdad on the Tigris. This whole area would in the past, much prefer the rule of a legitimate Shi’a monarch from Iraq than be united by Arabism. The people in this region bemoaned for centuries Ottoman rule and the loss of the Safavid monarchy. Many Twelver Shi’a scholars in that area historically also, are not too charitable to the Arab ethnicity either, as the work al-Kafi stated, ‘the Arabs are the most vile folk, they murdered the prophet and rejected the Imamate’.

Iraq also possesses large amounts of Kurds, both Sunni, Shi’a and Yazidi who live throughout its territories. These Kurds had existed within relative decentralism for approximately 400 years. Forcing them into a pan-Arab state is going to make what the Turks have in their Kurdish areas seem easy. They will resist, radicalize and fight for every inch they can. The added dynamic of minorities among them complicated issues too, in 1900 a larger percentages of these areas are both Yazidi, Christian and Jewish. All of whom either survived as distinct due to high level autonomy given by Muslim states or by way of paying jizya tax. In this secular Arab state, their very existence is at stake more than ever.

Syria has much the same issues, as with the Levant. These areas though majority Sunni and Arab, have significant Christian presence, Druze, Twelvers and Alawites who all present difficulties. Kurds also, are united into bloccs with their neighbor cousins and likely have some sort of agreement with other minorities like the overarching Shi’a.

Egypt is too populous and ethnically-economically United, they will dominate the interests of this country and ruin and pretense at fairness in terms of election.

Arabia has so many tribes, Bedouin, divergent Islamic beliefs and disputes to be a positive addition. Yemen, Nejd, Ahsa, Oman and so forth are all divided religiously and to a degree ethnically. Yemen and Oman for instance, has villages who do not speak Arabic to any degree. In otl, these areas are often afforded a level of autonomy and liberty and attend to their tribal customs as they had always done. In the Nejd, too many Bedouin and Arabs will refuse public education or progressive political narratives.

Maghreb, Algeria, Chad, Libya, Tunisia, etc. Much of these peoples are not Arabs and many will not speak Arab without education. The Tuareg, Fulani, Berber, etc for instance do not speak Arabic, especially in rural areas. All of these areas too, are less economically developed and economically distinct to everywhere else in the union.

Somalia and the sectors mentioned of Ethiopia, were never ruled by the Abbasid or Umayyad and I do not know what to say for them.

Overall, my view is that the Ottomans could rule all of these areas aside from Somalia mostly. As could many states that utilize Islam and high levels of decentralism as is stipulated by traditional Islamic statecraft. However, the large centralized Arab secular state will have difficulties. Even in just the localized varieties of these states in Syria, Egypt, Libya, Iraq, etc, all we have is disaster and issues.

I’d argue that a successful united Arab state would definitely have to involve a degree of federalism that will ensure that the states will have power level to that of the central government. Also it would require popular leaders like Nasser who have the popularity of many Arabs. And when I mean that I mean being able to prove that they are the legitimate ruler through various acts (like taking the Suez Canal). It’s not a easy and quick task and I wouldn’t deny that the state would have to make compromises. But I do believe that there were many missed opportunities throughout history to create such a state, and that if such a state existed would be very powerful. Of course this would require powerful competent leaders that are ambitious but willing to compromise and also know their limits.

I’d view it the same way I view the development of Russia or the USSR.
 
I’d argue that a successful united Arab state would definitely have to involve a degree of federalism that will ensure that the states will have power level to that of the central government. Also it would require popular leaders like Nasser who have the popularity of many Arabs. And when I mean that I mean being able to prove that they are the legitimate ruler through various acts (like taking the Suez Canal). It’s not a easy and quick task and I wouldn’t deny that the state would have to make compromises. But I do believe that there were many missed opportunities throughout history to create such a state, and that if such a state existed would be very powerful. Of course this would require powerful competent leaders that are ambitious but willing to compromise and also know their limits.

I’d view it the same way I view the development of Russia or the USSR.

Russia was created by force of arms and conquest; not by mutual agreement.
 

Deleted member 123260

Russia was created by force of arms and conquest; not by mutual agreement.

I think a pan-Arab state would also have to have some sort of revolutionary ideology attached to it like socialism or something but the ideology would also have to be prone to decentralization.

What anti-capitalist ideology do you think would work to unite Middle Easterners/Arabs?
 
Switzerland to acquire Alsace, the Black Forest and maybe a bit more, to give itself a common border with Belgium (or with a united Low Countries) so that there is no common frontier between France and Germany.
 
It turns out a lot of people are totally cool with imperialism and colonialism. That's actually pretty unsurprising, to be honest.

I think a pan-Arab state would also have to have some sort of revolutionary ideology attached to it like socialism or something but the ideology would also have to be prone to decentralization.

What anti-capitalist ideology do you think would work to unite Middle Easterners/Arabs?
Democratic Confederalism comes to mind, but that's pretty heavily associated with Rojava - and thus the Kurds - now, so I'm actually not very confident in its ability to adapt to Pan-Arabism in a hypothetical future scenario.
 

Metaverse

Banned
United Dominion of India, Gandhara(Afghanistan) and Sogdia(parts of Central Asia) would be quite interesting with the British Empire.

Religion: Anglicanism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Reformed Islam.
 

Metaverse

Banned
United Kushan Kingdom of India, Gandhara, Ariana, Baktrish, Sogdia, Khorasaniya, Tokharia(Tarim Basin) and Sri Lanka.

Religions: Mahayana Buddhism

Languages: Tocharian, Iranian and Indian languages
 
Am I the only guy out here who wants to see Alexander’s empire stay together?

I doubt it could have stayed together indefinitely, with Romans on one side and Parthians on the other.

Best way to prolong it is to prolong Alexander's life. Have him dodge that arrow in India and be strong enough to survive his illness in Babylon. That probably keeps him around long enough to move west and polish off both Rome and Carthage. It will still break up eventually, but he'll have changed the world even more than OTL, with Hellenistic states all the way to the Atlantic.
 

Deleted member 123260

It turns out a lot of people are totally cool with imperialism and colonialism. That's actually pretty unsurprising, to be honest.


Democratic Confederalism comes to mind, but that's pretty heavily associated with Rojava - and thus the Kurds - now, so I'm actually not very confident in its ability to adapt to Pan-Arabism in a hypothetical future scenario.

It's a shame. Democratic Confederalism seems like it'd work really well.

Maybe you could try syndicalism or mutualism? If Kurds like Bookchin then Arabs might like Proudhon or Adolf Rocker.
 
  • Cyprus with the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. The latter was created only by way of an unprovoked invasion by Turkey, led to a massive amount of ethnic cleansing/dislocation (and continued settling of the North by mainland Turks - a violation of the Geneva Conventions), and creating a massive rift in the divide of Cypriot society - all only to establish an effective puppet regime to Turkey.
    • To that end, the Enosis of Greece with Cyprus would probably be a net positive.
  • Any of the historic Scandinavian unions (Denmark-Norway, Sweden-Norway, the Kalmar Union) would be interesting to see retained to the present day, offering greater resource and population based to the Scandinavian nations.
  • A union of the Levantine Arab states, which while ethnically/religiously rather messy would offer the overall region a far larger economic and demographic base to work with, hopefully allowing for less regional conflict and greater development.
  • Ethiopia with Eritrea, allowing Ethiopia to finally have coastal access.
  • A surviving Yugoslavia, if it could be made to work, would be infinitely better than the current state of the South Slavic Balkan region.
    • One incorporating Bulgaria might be a regional power, though this may cause more troubles than it is worth.
    • In a separate case, for Bulgaria to gain either all of Northern Macedonia, or the non-Albanian portions (those going to Albania).
  • Corsica to Italy.
  • Romania with Moldova and Bessarabia.
  • Kalingrad/Konigsberg area to Germany, though this would be less of a merger than a prevented sundering (modern Kalingrad is almost wholly Russian and should be left as such).
  • Had the All-Russian identity remained intact and supported by the Russian government, a union of Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine (or at least the former two) would be a vastly stronger entity.
As for some more ambitious (and likely less practical) ones:
  • A strong, federal union of the U.K. with Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, acting as a sort of quasi-Imperial Federation without egregious amounts of ethnic tension.
  • A fully united India (India proper, Pakistan, and Bangladesh; perhaps throw in Sri Lanka, too).
  • The Central Asian Turkic republics unified into one state, thereby creating a single one with enough resources for a semi-sustainable economy rather than the current messy situation in the region (see Turkmenistan).
  • A unification of much of the Caribbean into a single multilingual federal entity.
 
East African Federation.

Union of South African States running to the Congo and north of the Zambesi.

Surviving United States of Central America.

Surviving British Raj as Federated Republics of South Asia.

United States including Albania, British Colombia, Alberta, Yukon Territory, the Philippines, Siberia east of 160 latitude, Cuba, Mexico, North Brunei, the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Greenland, Iceland, Canada, and Taiwan.

United Hispaniola with the marriage of of the heir to Castile and Portugal with Aragon circa 1448.
 
Cyprus with the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. The latter was created only by way of an unprovoked invasion by Turkey, led to a massive amount of ethnic cleansing/dislocation (and continued settling of the North by mainland Turks - a violation of the Geneva Conventions), and creating a massive rift in the divide of Cypriot society - all only to establish an effective puppet regime to Turkey.
  • To that end, the Enosis of Greece with Cyprus would probably be a net positive.
Didn't Turkey only invade Cyprus in response to its government trying to ethnically cleanse its northern Turkish population?
 
Top