Historia Mundi

It does need a second reading just to re-gain the stability that the previous installments had. It is good - perhaps you should list all the rulers of Rome at the time. I do like how the Populares win although there is a detriment to it - a more elegant Republic if it were - and just them dealing with their allies. I'm curious that you didn't include Pontus. I think they are around at this time and not basically sitting on their hands while this is happening. On a side note, with Dacia as the "heart" of the Populares, is there any cultural spreading of that said region in the Empire?
 
G.Bone said:
It does need a second reading just to re-gain the stability that the previous installments had. It is good - perhaps you should list all the rulers of Rome at the time. I do like how the Populares win although there is a detriment to it - a more elegant Republic if it were - and just them dealing with their allies. I'm curious that you didn't include Pontus. I think they are around at this time and not basically sitting on their hands while this is happening. On a side note, with Dacia as the "heart" of the Populares, is there any cultural spreading of that said region in the Empire?
Pontus was already conquered and they were just recently crushed again when they tried to rise up, in the prior installment.

Well, the Romanization of Dacia has been put into overdrive. I don't imagine that they're quite ready to be Colonial territories under the new law, but they're on the fast track to do so. By the way, there's a clear hierarchy of territorial status going on at the moment:
- Italia. Any region considered to be part of Italy (at the moment, just the mainland Italy up to the alps) has equal rights with Rome itself. The inhabitants are full citizens and are part of the voting tribes distributed across Italy.
- Agri Coloniae. The heavily Romanized territories practice some self governance and their inhabitants have rights similar to the Latin Right, before the Latins were granted full citizenship. Of course, many of the inhabitants are already full citizens, they retain their citizenship. Many of the local elites are granted citizenship.
- Provinciae. The provinces are at the complete mercy of the Republic. They have no say in their governance, but have the hope of becoming Colonial Territories.

I'll get on the list of Roman rulers when I get back from lunch.
 
Originally posted by DominusNovus
Comments? Thoughts? I demand them like a volcano demands virgins.

I need, I want to be a volcano:) :D

Jokes apart, no doubt that in the future in this timeline the words "Octavius Aquilinus" wil be synonym of wise, loyal and idealistic person.

So: Dictionary
"Aquilinus (from Marcus Octavius Aquilinus):1. it is said about a person with a great sense of the friendship and loyalty. 2. Person with true and great ideals. 3. "To be an Aquilinus": to be a great friend, a loyal person that you truly trust in him (or her)."

So Hail Marcus Octavius Aquilinus! Restorer and Reformer of the Republic!

Originally posted by DominusNovus
738 AUC
- The independence of many of the territories conquered by Titus Antonius is restored, though they remain as client states.
(...)
740 AUC (14 BC)
- The Roman Republic enters an alliance with the Gallic Confederation.

So we have a web of client states and allies, this could be a good help specially the alliance with the Gallic Confederation when the germans and other barbarians and enemies begin to make too much noise against the Republic.

originally posted by G.Bone
Besides that I think you should continue this TL...

I agree totally with G.Bone. Continue please. Tacitus and Suetonius agree too:) :) :)
 
G.Bone said:
Besides that I think you should continue this TL...
Thank ya. Anyone have any suggestions for what you'd like to see? I do plan on reviving some ideas from the original Roman Timeline, but everything's in flux. Even the stuff already written.
 
Iñaki said:
I need, I want to be a volcano:) :D

Jokes apart, no doubt that in the future in this timeline the words "Octavius Aquilinus" wil be synonym of wise, loyal and idealistic person.

So: Dictionary
"Aquilinus (from Marcus Octavius Aquilinus):1. it is said about a person with a great sense of the friendship and loyalty. 2. Person with true and great ideals. 3. "To be an Aquilinus": to be a great friend, a loyal person that you truly trust in him (or her)."

So Hail Marcus Octavius Aquilinus! Restorer and Reformer of the Republic!
Perhaps. :cool:
Aquilinus is a cognomen meaing "eagle like", and the Romans did like their eagles.

Iñaki said:
So we have a web of client states and allies, this could be a good help specially the alliance with the Gallic Confederation when the germans and other barbarians and enemies begin to make too much noise against the Republic.
Perhaps. The Romans were often allied with the more civilized border kings, and these are so far the two most civilized.

Iñaki said:
I agree totally with G.Bone. Continue please. Tacitus and Suetonius agree too:) :) :)
haha, thanks.
 
Alright, at this point, we've got a world with better trade contacts (due mainly to the Chinese leadership), and an early printing press. Therefore, a variety of inventions and innovations will be spread easier and catch on quicker, due to a greater dissemination of knowledge. So, I'm gonna compile a list of stuff like that, to help me out. Feel free to fill in the gaps, or tell me why invention X isn't likely to occur at this point, or invention Y already existed. And this isn't necessarily a list of crucial inventions, or ones that will happen soon, just ones that popped into my head (often from wikipedia).

  • Trebuchets (traction trebuchets already existed in China, but counterweight trebuchets had yet to be invented anywhere)
  • Heavy plow
  • Four field crop rotation
  • Selective breeding
  • Stirrups
  • Horseshoes
  • Wheelbarrows
  • Stern rudder
  • Wootz steel
  • Toothpaste
  • Windmill
  • Compass
  • Greek Fire
  • Gunpowder
  • Spinning Wheel
  • Parachute
  • Lenses
  • Optical Telegraph

That ought to do to start us off.
 

Keenir

Banned
DominusNovus said:
Alright, at this point, we've got a world with better trade contacts (due mainly to the Chinese leadership), and an early printing press. Therefore, a variety of inventions and innovations will be spread easier and catch on quicker,
  • Horseshoes

most inventions need to arise from something else (creation from "nothing" is rare, as far as I know)....where did horseshoes come from in OTL?
(because I honestly have no idea)


  • Greek Fire
um, has anybody figured out what that stuff is? the Byzantines kept it a pretty tight secret.

  • Parachute

um, why would the Romans (or anybody back then) need a parachute?

well, it depends on what the lenses are used for.....you need them smoothed to one angle for reading glasses (basic magnification), but its far tougher, I'm given to understand, to properly make the right angle for telescopes.


I hope these help.
 
Keenir said:
um, why would the Romans (or anybody back then) need a parachute?
Well, how else are they going to jump out of the planes? Did I forget to put Jet Aircraft on that list? Damn...

In OTL, the parachute was invented in the 9th century by some guy who just wanted to see if it would work. As he sustained only minor injuries, it counts as a success. :cool:
 
Hello Dominus.

Nice to see again Historia Mundi continuing:)

and congratulations for the award for March of Days yet unborn.:cool: :)

And respect to the inventions, I remember that I read about some early experiments in steam power of Heron of Alexandria, this man, Heron (too named Hero depending of the sources) make some interesting experiments about the use of steam in machines.

Heron live around 62AD an he is an interesting man, I add this link with some of his stuff, in part curious in part interesting, it can be interesting for you http://www.history.rochester.edu/steam/hero/

Is it possible that in this ATL Heron or men like him could invent some little steam engines that in the future develop as a real and practical steam machines for different purposes?

Could have the Roman Republic of this ATL in the near future have some kind of little steam revolution?

I hope this can help you.:)
 
Iñaki said:
Hello Dominus.

Nice to see again Historia Mundi continuing:)

and congratulations for the award for March of Days yet unborn.:cool: :)

And respect to the inventions, I remember that I read about some early experiments in steam power of Heron of Alexandria, this man, Heron (too named Hero depending of the sources) make some interesting experiments about the use of steam in machines.

Heron live around 62AD an he is an interesting man, I add this link with some of his stuff, in part curious in part interesting, it can be interesting for you http://www.history.rochester.edu/steam/hero/

Is it possible that in this ATL Heron or men like him could invent some little steam engines that in the future develop as a real and practical steam machines for different purposes?

Could have the Roman Republic of this ATL in the near future have some kind of little steam revolution?

I hope this can help you.:)
Missed this before, but thanks. If there's one historical figure I adore, its Heron of Alexandria. I actually did a research paper on the possibility of him producing a usable steam engine. :cool:

Anyway, having Heron usher in a steam age is a tad unlikely, especially given that, in TTL, he'll never be born. :eek:

But there will still be plenty of interesting technological developments.
 
A pity, Heron is too one of my interesting figures in the history (like Zenobia, Artemisia of Halicarnaso and Mitridates of Pontus -other three interesting characters, although Heron is inventor and this three are women and men of power- he had deserved better luck in OTL).

But well Heron was not born in this ATL, althoug well ever is possible that in this ATL some men not named Heron could be invent too some kind of little steam engine.:)

But It is true Heron seems have a great sense of invention and could be without Heron the other possible men that could appear in this ATL that have an interest about the steam could be that they don´t have the interesting imagination and scientific quality of Heron.:(

But as you say:

"But there will still be plenty of interesting technological developments"

Aahhh! This makes me very happy:) , no Heron but could be other guys as interestings and imaginatives than Heron.
 
Here's a tidbit to keep interest alive (not that there'll be too much of a wait, I'm mostly done with the next segment).

In OTL, the population of the Roman Republic was between 55-60 million in 70 BC. In Historia Mundi, we'll assume its a bit higher, probably closser to the 60 million mark, give or take a mil or two.

However, by the time of Augustus, the population had actually declined to 45 million, due to all the civil wars, even though Rome ruled much more territory. In Historia Mundi, most of the civil wars are avoided. So instead of a decline of population from this period, there's actually an increase, to the 65 million the empire contained at its height of AD 170.

Just thought you'd like to know.
 
The Romans could import many of said inventions from China. Maybe we need more contact between those countries. More Roman presence in the Indian Ocean needed.
 
Originally posted by Dominus Novus
In Historia Mundi, most of the civil wars are avoided. So instead of a decline of population from this period, there's actually an increase, to the 65 million the empire contained at its height of AD 170.

Good, with all this population and a more stable republic the roman history seems go in the right way in the future, sure Cincinnatus and Horatius Cocles would be very proud of this Roman Republic.:)

originally posted by Max Sinister
The Romans could import many of said inventions from China. Maybe we need more contact between those countries. More Roman presence in the Indian Ocean needed.

Hmm, I suppose that the problem could be the parthians and his position in the middle of the way between China and Roma.
Could be that the kushans help the romans with the problem of the parthians.

A question to Dominus, in this ATL the Kushan Empire will have a similar history than in OTL? and he will be an important ally for the Roman Republic?
 
Regarding Roman-Chinese contacts, they're very good at the moment, regardless of Parthia, which is relatively pro-Roman, compared to OTL, as they've yet to fight a war. Plus, sea contacts are better, due in no small part to the Chinese naval expeditions.

Regarding the Kushans, they're presently serving as the military backbone to the Indo-Greek kingdom. As such, they exert tremendous influence over the poltics of the Indo-Greeks.
 
drumroll please

751 AUC
- Artavasdes III succeeds Artaxias II as king of Armenia.

752 AUC
- The Roman Republic enters into an alliance with the Kingdom of Axum.
- Several Germanic tribes invade northern Gallia. [46]
- The first edition of the Libellus Agrarium is published. [47]

753 AUC
- The traditional date of the birth of Jesus.
- Taking advantage of the instability in Parthia, several Yuezhi tribes expand into the eastern regions of the empire.

754 AUC
- The Gallic Confederation responds to the pleas of several northern tribes seeking protection from the German invaders after securing Roman assurance of assistance.

755 AUC
- Cast Iron technology reaches Rome
- The Roman Republic, upset at the disruption of trade caused by the civil war in Parthia, backs Artabanus as the claimant for the Parthian throne.

756 AUC
- A combined Roman-Gallic army, under the command of Marcus Valerius Triarius and Vercingetorix II, defeats a Germanic army outside of Lutetia.
- Artabanus is assassinated in a coup by those that fear that he would become a Roman puppet. His faction puts forward his younger brother Pacorus as their claimant.

757 AUC
- The Romans and Gallics begin a punitive campaign against the invading tribes.
- Telephos II succeeds Menander III as the Indo-Greek King. [48]

758 AUC
- The Roman Republic commissions a series of optical telegraphs (Optigraphici) to be built across Italia. [49]
- The Romans and Armenians put forward their own claimant to the Parthian throne, Zariadres, the half-brother of the Armenian king, Artavasdes.

759 AUC
- Celtillus I succeeds Vercingetorix II as High King of the Gallic Confederation.
- Stirrups come into use in Seres.

760 AUC (AD 7)
- A Roman army under Marcus Valerius Triarius invades Parthia.
- Several Germanic tribes join the kingdom of Boiohaemum, seeking protection from Rome.
- A Kushan warlord, Vasudeva, overthrows Telephos II and creates the Kingdom of Kushana. [50]

761 AUC
- The campaigns in Germania draw to a close, leaving the invading tribes devastated.
- Cingetorix I succeeds Celtillus I as High King of the Gallic Confederation.
- Vasudeva demands that the other Yuezhi tribes acknowledge him as their overlord. Vasudeva then invades those that refuse. [51]

762 AUC
- The Gallic Confederation and the Roman Republic establish three small kingdoms, Frisia, Ubia, and Varicia on the far side of the Rhine, to serve as buffer states against future Germanic aggression. [52]
- The Roman forces under Triarius defeat a Parthian army under Pacorus outside of Dura Europus.
- Tigranes IV succeeds Artavasdes III as king of Armenia.

763 AUC
- With the success of the first optigraphs, the Rome sets about constructing them across the Republic. [53]
- The Romans capture Seleucia and Ctesiphon, as well as Pacorus, who is executed.
- Cheng Di succeeds Xuan Di as the Emperor of Seres.
- The wheelbarrow is invented in Seres.

764 AUC
- The Romans defeat a Parthian army outside of Susa.
- Axum begins to export bunna [54]
- The Vandals invade Boiohaemum, fearing the growing power of the young kingdom.

765 AUC
- Mauretania is annexed to the Roman Republic.
- The Kushans are victorious over the other Yuezhi tribes, uniting them under Kushan rule.
- Cheng Di leads an invasion of the Xianbei tribes to the north of Seres.

766 AUC
- The Roman army defeats a Parthian army under Vologases near the Caspian gates. Vologases is killed in the battle, ending the Parthian civil war. [55]

767 AUC
- The remaining independent tribes of Gallia join the Gallic Confederation.

768 AUC
- Roman troops are dispatched to assist Boiohaemum against the Vandals. [56]
- The Xianbei become vassals of Seres.

769 AUC
- The Nubians invade Axum.
- Serean ships begin to use magnetic compasses.

770 AUC (AD 17)
- Vasudeva renounces the vassal status of the Yuezhi to Seres. [57]
- Cheng Di leads an invasion against the Di and Qiang tribes to the west of Seres.

771 AUC
- Eporedorix I succeeds Cingetorix I as High King of the Gallic Confederation.
- The Vandals are defeated and forced northward and westward. [58]
- The Qiang tribes swear their fealty to Seres.

772 AUC
- The Roman Republic sends and expedition to Nubia to assist their Axumite allies.
- Aristander of Alexandria writes De Commercium. [59]

773 AUC
- The Nubians surrender to the Romans without fighting any major battles, and the country is split into two new client states, Nobatia and Makouria.

774 AUC
- The Di become vassals of Seres.

775 AUC
- Cappadocia is annexed to the Roman Republic.

******

[46] The invaders include the Chamavi, Chatti, Chauci, Cherusci, Hermanduri, Langobardi, Suebi, and Sugambri tribes. The Frisii, Ubii, and Varisci stay in their traditional lands, as they feel that the invasion will provoke the Gallic confederation and their Roman allies. The tribes of Boiohaemum also stay put, though they have no reason to go to war anyway, as their kingdom is prospering from the mining of gold.
[47] The Libellus Agrarium translates to the booklet of farming. Inspired by the letters exchange between prominent farmers on various farming techniques and the interest of others in the discourses. The useful information was therefore compiled together, along with a parapegma (weather calendar) and issued on a yearly basis, effectively making a farmer's almanac. The book is a fantastic success and will eventually take credit for the spread of several innovations, such as heavy plows, four field crop rotations, and selective breeding techniques.
[48] Telephos is mainly a puppet of the Kushan warlords that are beginning to dominate the Indo-Greek kingdom.
[49] These first optical telegraphs are mainly heliographs, using mirrors to reflect sunlight, built on top of towers. Generally, a signal can travel 100 roman miles in a little over 15 minutes.
[50] Vasudeva had married Telephos' daughter, through whom he claimed the throne. He allows Telephos to live, as the former king is old and decrepit anyway, and Vasudeva has far more support and out of respect for Telephos' daughter, whom Vasudeva is said to have loved dearly.
[51] The Kushans still in the Yuezhi confederation readily swear their allegience to Vasudeva, as do the Xiumi.
[52] These states, of course, are formed around the 3 neighboring tribes that did not participate in the invasion. They also allied with the Romans and Gauls once it became clear that they were winning. These states are interesting in that they serve as buffer states to the Gallic Confederation, which is itself a buffer state to Rome. While some in Rome feared strengthening the Gallic position in this way, it was decided to use these buffer states to curb Gallic expansion as well as potential allies against the Gauls if the need arose.
[53] The new optigraph system features number of improvements over the original Italian ones. First, a code was formulated for the Roman alphabet, similar to Morse code. Second, the towers are upgraded to include fires for operation during night and overcast weather. The new optigraphs are capable of transmitting a signal over a 100 roman miles in slightly under 10 minutes. The system results in the rapid spread of news across the the Republic. The local optigraph operators often share the information they pass on to the locals, allowing people across the Mediterranean to keep up with the latest Roman gossip, or the progress of the legions.
[54] Coffee.
[55] The war strips Parthia of Mesopotamia, as well as wresting Osroene from Armenia. The Armenians allow this since they effectively gain the rest of the Parthian empire through the dynastic ties. Mesopotamia is split between the client kingdoms of Assyria and Mesopotamia.
[56] While Boiohaemum did not ask for assistance, the Roman Republic preferred the peaceful and relatively settled state over the aggressive Vandals.
[57] The Yuezhi tribes had been considered an "outer vassal" by the Han. Vasudeva negotiated with the Han court to raise their status from "outer vassal" to "brotherly state."
[58] The Vandals are forced into the territory occupied by the tribes defeated in the recent invasion of Gaul. There, they eventually ally with the Suebi and the two tribes begin to dominate the others.
[59] De Commercium translates to "On Commerce." It shares many themes in common with Adam Smith's "The Wealth of Nations," though it is not nearly as sophisticated, due to the economy of Adam Smith's time being much more advanced. Still, it discusses at great length the issue of acting in self interest, as well as mutually beneficial transactions.
 
And a map. I changed the shades a bit, didn't like the original shaes. I also inverted the colors for vassals/clients. No matter how I do it, the Chinese ones never look very good, browns to close to yellow. But the Roman ones look a lot better this way, I think.

world 775AUC.png
 
Very good!:cool: :cool:

This roman republic is becoming more interesting and advanced than the best emperors of the Roman Empire of OTL could imagine about the future of Rome (Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius would say looking at the roman republic of this ATL: Jupiter, this is great, I am too a republican!:D )

The stability of the frontiers is very good, with the alliance with the Gallic Confederation and the defeat of the parthians (formation of client states in Mesopotamia this is the dream of emperor Traianus: defeat decisively the parthians accomplished in this ATL 100 years before of his dead in OTL:)) the Roman Republic for the moment seems very safe in his frontiers.

The techonological advances as the optigraph are making of the Roman Republic a structure far more prosperous and easy to govern than the Roman Empire of OTL in its best times.

Well, My God! err... sorry Jupiter!:) No doubt This Timeline is making of Rome an authenthic caput mundi :cool:

And... some questions: the first by curiosity Octavius Aquilinus, this great reformer, is living well in these moments, in retirement of the politics or he passed to another life to join other great men in the Eliseus Fields?

And I have too curiosity about the situation in Britannia, with a strong Gallic Confederation and the historic and cultural ties between gauls and britons, and the possible situation of division in Britannia in different tribes (not joined in a federation as the case of Gallic Confederation) the influence of t Gallic Confederation in Britannia is very strong? in the future is possible that gauls will intervene in Britannia, so in near future breton client states of Gallic Confederation will be formed?

and well at last only say another time: very good timeline!:cool: :cool:
 
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