Himmler dies in 1938

I was reading Giles Macdonogh's book 1938: Hitler's gamble and it's mentioned there that when Himmler arrived in Vienna on 12 March 1938 he slipped and almost fell out of the aircraft. (Himmler's bodyguard argued he was the one who saved Him.) This made me thinking, what if Himmler fell out and broke his neck or something? How would this had affected nazi policies and what kind of butterflies would this have created?
 

Daffy Duck

Banned
Heydrich

If Himmler dies in 1938, this will have a noticable effect on the history of the Reich, especially the SS.

By 1938, Reinhard 'Hangman' Heydrich was pretty much the #2 guy in the SS. He was also in charge of the SD, Gestapo and KRIPO by this time. His only potential rival would have been Kurt Daluege. With the amount of 'dirt' Heydrich had on everyone in Germany and in the Nazi party, there is very little doubt, in my opinion, that he would have succeeded Himmler. That being said, he was a pretty arrogant person by all accounts. This might have hurt his working relationship with Hitler. Then again, he was a pretty smooth operator.

Had Heydrich succeeded Himmler (and presumably not been killed in 1942), would Europe have seen a swifter Holocaust implemented? Would the Waffen SS been expanded more or less? His growing power, especially after his ascencion to Chief of the SS would have made the top dogs quite nervous. I'd say this would make for an excellent ATL.

Cheers,
 

Deleted member 1487

If Himmler dies in 1938, this will have a noticable effect on the history of the Reich, especially the SS.

By 1938, Reinhard 'Hangman' Heydrich was pretty much the #2 guy in the SS. He was also in charge of the SD, Gestapo and KRIPO by this time. His only potential rival would have been Kurt Daluege. With the amount of 'dirt' Heydrich had on everyone in Germany and in the Nazi party, there is very little doubt, in my opinion, that he would have succeeded Himmler. That being said, he was a pretty arrogant person by all accounts. This might have hurt his working relationship with Hitler. Then again, he was a pretty smooth operator.

Had Heydrich succeeded Himmler (and presumably not been killed in 1942), would Europe have seen a swifter Holocaust implemented? Would the Waffen SS been expanded more or less? His growing power, especially after his ascencion to Chief of the SS would have made the top dogs quite nervous. I'd say this would make for an excellent ATL.

Cheers,

If anything at this point I think he would go after the Abwehr and consolidate intelligence functions before trying to expand the army. Frankly he would have total control over almost all intelligence (and would be better than Canaris), which is better than having a shitty, second place army...for the time being that is. Eventually the Waffen SS would occur, but it may take some time.
 
If anything at this point I think he would go after the Abwehr and consolidate intelligence functions before trying to expand the army. Frankly he would have total control over almost all intelligence (and would be better than Canaris), which is better than having a shitty, second place army...for the time being that is. Eventually the Waffen SS would occur, but it may take some time.

The waffen ss already existed in 1938 as an outgrowth of the leibstandarte bodyguard battalion (the der fuhrer (which eventually became das reich) infantry battalion was already forming)

Heydrich is not automatic... he was not without enemies within the party AND within the army high command who would make it known they didn't want him to have increased power or authority

No Himmler butterflies away Goering and Himmler's triangulation to marginalize Hess and Ribbentrop, so it's possible those two are able to hold more influence

I wouldn't be shocked if Hitler's buddy/pal Sepp Deitrich didn't get the job... its mostly symbolism anyway since Heydrich was doing a lot of the heavy lifting AND Hitler adored Deitrich and trusted him with his life (Deitrich doesn't have the baggage of being detested by important people in the army and government either which might make that a more attractive option for adolf)
 
I think Hitler would have taken the provided opportunity and done away with the position of Reichfuhrer-SS or absorbed it into his office.

Heydrich would have full control over the departments that eventually made up RSHA. He might have even got Hitler to make RSHA into a full "Ministry of Security" and completely subverted Canaris and Abwehr.

Daluege would, as head of the Orpo, probably would eventually became Interior Minister, until his health became a factor as is OTL. Then Heydrich and Eicke would have fought over the scraps.

Eicke would take full control of the concentration camp system; but as a rival of Heydrich, who in OTL had a big part in the planning of the Final Solution, might have changed the rate of murder (up or down) depending on the level of co-op between RSHA and Totenkopf.

Dietrich would have been in charge of a growing but smaller SS-VT that might eventually expand to a full-fledged Waffen-SS, but without a Himmler diverting war materials and supplies directly to it (I just don't see Hitler taking the time to support the Waffen-SS the way Himmler did) it will be more subservient to the Heer.

The big difference is that now these players don't have to go through Himmler to get Hitler's ear. The big question is does Goring or Bormann try successfully to block them from Hitler's inner circle? A ruthless but pragmatic Heydrich, backed by Dietrich who was usually on good terms with Heydrich and had the Fuhrer’s confidence already, at a Hitler's right hand is scary thought indeed.
 
Don't forget Karl Wolff

per wiki "By 1937 he was an SS-Gruppenführer and considered third in command of the entire SS (after Himmler and Heydrich)."

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Sorry for the digression but I had a long standing WI in my head about how would Himmler behave if he became Furher ? I've heard that at the end of war he had ideas of doing sacrifices to Odin or something similar.
 
OMG Reinhard Heydrich as head of SS ?!
he had made the Schutzstaffel even more efficient organisation with his autocratic managerial style
as under Himmler esoteric mystical managerial style
the rest of NSDAP Leader would very Nervous about him
because Heydrich need only 6 Mounths from his engagement in SS
to becoming one of the most dangerous men in the Nazi Party!
Heydrich created his own network of spies and informers and dispatched them
to obtain information to be used as blackmail, pursuing the party's opponents as well as high-ranking Nazis themselves.


IMHO after Crushing the SA, Herman Göring would be next "plotting to overthrow Hitler"
so the Information Heydrich give to Adolf Hiter
because Göring (who dislike Heydrich) wanted total controll over Gestapo.

As Head of SS, he will not become Reichsprotektor of Bohemia & Moravia
it's gonna be Karl Wolff or Otto Skorzeny, the victim of the Assassination in Prague
 
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