High Seas Fleet used for attacking convoys

WI Battlen Cruisers, and other cruisers were sent, in smaller groups, to attack trans Atlantic convoys.

A Battle cruiser would be likely to be a match for any convoy escort that was not a Battlle ship and to do massive damage.

Of course in the medium term the German raiders would be sunk, but if convoys look like concentrations of targets Britain might change is policy.
 
Isn't this exactly what the British want? The High Seas fleet came out in significate but weak portions for the Royal Navy to play with? Don't forget the UK radio- monitoring effort too.
 
German capital ships on a one way trip into the North Atlantic and then the sea floor. One doesn't use capital ships for convoy raiding - there is no return.
 

CalBear

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The Royal Navy would probably have sent them maps.

Every raider, every small group of raiders, was an immediate low hanging fruit. If the whole High Seas Fleet goes out it would cause for celebration unseen in the Admiralty since Trafalger. Once the HSF exits the North Sea it is very screwed. It has finite range and has a vastly superior force between it and home.
 
Not plausable with the naval geography of WW1, it's just too much for them to sneak out into the Atlantic through RN controlled chokepoints. What's more the only plausable change to naval geography, the Germans winning the Race to the Sea in 1914 and holding Pas de Calais, still wouldn't allow easy access to the open ocean.

However there is a much closer target for the German navy; the BEF supply lines. Even with only Uboats and destroyers from Belgium and maybe the odd light cruiser the German navy could garner considerable success in the Channel in a sustained campaign. The HSF could be used to keep the GF focused on it while light forces did their business in the Channel.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Besides, IIRC, the High Seas Fleet was never designed for operations outside of the North Sea and did not have the fuel or logistical capacity for long voyages.
 

MrP

Banned
Besides, IIRC, the High Seas Fleet was never designed for operations outside of the North Sea and did not have the fuel or logistical capacity for long voyages.

There'll certainly be several big units missing. The Helgolands had a 1800 range and the Kaisers a 4000 range at 12knots or so, IIRC, causing a drop off in available numbers past a certain combat radius. But I doubt the Kaiser would be happy to send out penny-packets of his fleet to almost certain destruction without a high probability of a big naval smash up to beat the RN's face in. This doesn't offer that.
 
On the issue of range, there was a proposal advanced in 1915 by Korvettenkapitan Wolfgang Wegener, a HSF staff officer, that the Faroe, Azores and Cape Verde islands be used as fleet bases, quite how they would be set up with the RN in the way i don't know.
 
Isn't this exactly what the British want? The High Seas fleet came out in significate but weak portions for the Royal Navy to play with? Don't forget the UK radio- monitoring effort too.

This is Britain's worst nightmare.:eek::eek: It took most of the Grand Fleet to track & destroy Bismarck & Prinz Eugen, & the threat of raiders tied up heavies for months. German CBs loose in the Atlantic could have wreaked bloody havoc & left the Med or Indian Ocean essentially defenseless.:eek: This does not augur well for Britain...
 

Nietzsche

Banned
This is Britain's worst nightmare.:eek::eek: It took most of the Grand Fleet to track & destroy Bismarck & Prinz Eugen, & the threat of raiders tied up heavies for months. German CBs loose in the Atlantic could have wreaked bloody havoc & left the Med or Indian Ocean essentially defenseless.:eek: This does not augur well for Britain...

...err, 14, not 41.
 
Geography was on Germany's side in WW2, they had access to the open ocean from Norway and France so could get out at will. In WW1 they would have to fight their way out into the Atlantic through the Orkney-Norway gap, or down the Channel. These chokepoints allow the GF to locate the HSF and fight it.
 
This is Britain's worst nightmare.:eek::eek: It took most of the Grand Fleet to track & destroy Bismarck & Prinz Eugen, & the threat of raiders tied up heavies for months. German CBs loose in the Atlantic could have wreaked bloody havoc & left the Med or Indian Ocean essentially defenseless.:eek: This does not augur well for Britain...
What's with The Necromancy, Anyway ...

These Threads have been Idle for Months ...

WHY Bring them Back, In The First Place?

:eek:
 
What's with The Necromancy, Anyway ...

These Threads have been Idle for Months ...

WHY Bring them Back, In The First Place?

:eek:

Maybe someone is using certain threads for research. I know that I bumped up a couple of threads tonight in the pre-1900 forum for that purpose.
 

MrP

Banned
This is Britain's worst nightmare.:eek::eek: It took most of the Grand Fleet to track & destroy Bismarck & Prinz Eugen, & the threat of raiders tied up heavies for months. German CBs loose in the Atlantic could have wreaked bloody havoc & left the Med or Indian Ocean essentially defenseless.:eek: This does not augur well for Britain...

Different times, different circumstances, old boy. e.g. Germany controlled Brest in WWII, but not WWI.
 
This is Britain's worst nightmare.:eek::eek: It took most of the Grand Fleet to track & destroy Bismarck & Prinz Eugen, & the threat of raiders tied up heavies for months. German CBs loose in the Atlantic could have wreaked bloody havoc & left the Med or Indian Ocean essentially defenseless.:eek: This does not augur well for Britain...

Just a comment, but on the "It took most of the Grand Fleet to track & destroy Bismarck and Prinz Eugen" line, most of the Grand Fleet didn't have much else to do did it?
 
In WWI the British had more than ten times as many capital ships as they did in WWII and they did not have Italy and Japan as distractions.
 
On the issue of range, there was a proposal advanced in 1915 by Korvettenkapitan Wolfgang Wegener, a HSF staff officer, that the Faroe, Azores and Cape Verde islands be used as fleet bases, quite how they would be set up with the RN in the way i don't know.

Maybe the HSF could sneak out enough Marines to seize the Faroes, but how are they going to supply them, or any Fleet elements that get based there? And besides, I'd like to know what they were smoking to think they could use Portuguese territories as bases, cuz I'd definitely like to buy some of that :p. The Portuguese were neutral but friendly to Britain, and finally came in on the Entente side when von Lettow-Vorbeck led his forces into Mozambique in late '16.
 
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