which flag do you chose

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Interesting timeline. Some thoughts:

-How are these Bulgarians? Seems in this world they are not quite Bulgarians but Bolghars culturally, i.e. the nomadic elites did not assimilate into the local Slav population and kept their horse culture. And this being seemingly true, how do they look ethnically? Are they basically Bolgharized Slavs who have adopted the nomad way of life, or is there still a small core of Asiatic horsemen ruling over local Slavs/proto-Romanians?

-What is the status of the Avars, weren't they basically in terminal decline at this point?

-Not sure if I like the rise of the Berbers. It feels fairly unrealistic, what with having a few generations of brilliant leadership and success. Seemingly these semi-barbarians can rival Rome in a fairly short time, that their navy is worth half a damn and raising numbers of troops as high and higher than Romans seems especially silly.
This ties in with the bit where you love to make references to our timeline, some make sense like the Alt-Tours battle (though should Martel even be alive, wasn't he born post-PoD). Some like with the Berbers do not, as I feel you wanted an alternate Caliphate (though I did notice your Muhammed reference in the new Hijaz Kingdom ;) ) which takes advantage of a weakened Rome to cause rapid collapse of vast swaths of land. And I feel this is not needed, as history clearly shows Rome is not perfect and setbacks will happen but ones as massive as this are unlikely. Ultimately I hope Rome can recover Mare Nostrum eventually.

-What is the religious state of the various powers in Europe and Africa? Seems to me the main opposition to Roman rules comes from heretics and their rivals would seek to adopt non-Orthodox versions of the faith to have another tool of power against Roman domination. Seems most Arabs are Nestorian, some maybe Monothelite. The Berbers also seem to be Monothelite. Especially interesting is the situation in Western Europe, they should follow the Papal lead and adopt Orthodoxy but their main rival are the Romans. What is the state of Christianity there? Lastly, how is the the process of maintaining this new Orthodoxy going on in Roman lands? Where has there been successful adoption, where is the resistance?

-I feel you went way overboard with the early deaths of the Emperors, probably as an overreaction to the long reign of Constans. The early death of his son Constantine makes sense since he would be relatively old himself given how long his father reigned. So okay the first regency but then immediately after a second one... at the very least that is one quick death too many. Historically obv. such things happened but narratively it is meh at best.

-So the Heraclian dynasty is finished? Why is that? Did Tiberius have no children? What about Heraclius Jr. did he have children or his brother before he died? Seems odd to just give up the imperial crown just like that. Maybe anything but a son of Tiberius was not possible because of the influence Leo's family had. Anyway pity to see their end.

-As I said I love your timeline idea, and I can tell you know a lot about history. Which is probably the only reason I stuck to this timeline since as you are aware your English is less than optimal to say the least. That is the key difference, some timelines have awful English but the story is not strong enough or believable enough to hold my attention, you certainly succeeded in that regard. While I will keep reading your work regardless maybe consider getting an editor?

All in all an interesting and reasonable timeline, it is great and keep it up m8 : )
 
thanks

"
Interesting timeline. Some thoughts:

-How are these Bulgarians? Seems in this world they are not quite Bulgarians but Bolghars culturally, i.e. the nomadic elites did not assimilate into the local Slav population and kept their horse culture. And this being seemingly true, how do they look ethnically? Are they basically Bolgharized Slavs who have adopted the nomad way of life, or is there still a small core of Asiatic horsemen ruling over local Slavs/proto-Romanians?

eh i cant answer this sorry would contian to much spoilers

-What is the status of the Avars, weren't they basically in terminal decline at this point?

they are and trust me they are going to apear son enougth .



--Not sure if I like the rise of the Berbers. It feels fairly unrealistic, what with having a few generations of brilliant leadership and success. Seemingly these semi-barbarians can rival Rome in a fairly short time, that their navy is worth half a damn and raising numbers of troops as high and higher than Romans seems especially silly.
This ties in with the bit where you love to make references to our timeline, some make sense like the Alt-Tours battle (though should Martel even be alive, wasn't he born post-PoD). Some like with the Berbers do not, as I feel you wanted an alternate Caliphate (though I did notice your Muhammed reference in the new Hijaz Kingdom ;) ) which takes advantage of a weakened Rome to cause rapid collapse of vast swaths of land. And I feel this is not needed, as history clearly shows Rome is not perfect and setbacks will happen but ones as massive as this are unlikely. Ultimately I hope Rome can recover Mare Nostrum eventually.

1) i know the rise of the berbers seem a little farfeched but in the olt , they where alredy possing a treath to the roman africa , with many raids , costal regions where fairly safe though, i also wanted to portray historical ... "unpredictableness"

what do i mean by that if you told me that the arabs where to conquer all these lands , or the west would domiate , or that the europeans would conquer so much of america , i would laugth saying its unrelistic , but that is how history is.


history will not always follow the predictable line one makes out to be in alternitive history things that are wierd happen , i tried to not make it 100% ABS and have a reason as to why the altavan kingdom united the berbers in to the berber empire , seeing as how most berbers where heretics under the byzantine eye and that causes conflict , this combined with other pressures, and other factors

i had many ways of seeing how this would play out a confederation would have been more realistic ( even thougth it was confederation in the begining) but eh i said whats the point i mean the confederation would either

a) die or b) become an empire

allowed the berbers to win , the berbers in this timeline are combination of nomad warriors with good beurocracy ie a good combination and try to make real factors as to why they would win .

for know they do look like the caliphate but ...things would are going to change a lot .

as for martel i did say id keep buterflies to a mimnuim at least for the 7th and 8th centuries.




--What is the religious state of the various powers in Europe and Africa? Seems to me the main opposition to Roman rules comes from heretics and their rivals would seek to adopt non-Orthodox versions of the faith to have another tool of power against Roman domination. Seems most Arabs are Nestorian, some maybe Monothelite. The Berbers also seem to be Monothelite. Especially interesting is the situation in Western Europe, they should follow the Papal lead and adopt Orthodoxy but their main rival are the Romans. What is the state of Christianity there? Lastly, how is the the process of maintaining this new Orthodoxy going on in Roman lands? Where has there been successful adoption, where is the resistance?


the berbers are pot of diferent sects , something that will come in to play later, well in western europe everyone is 100% chalcedonian , except for hispania but i dont want to spoil what comes nexy.

well , Constantine IV murdered the resistance of mesopotemia and egypt , mesopotemia is an instresting case as like i mentioned many times the exchart has to keep everyone happy and prevent revolts , in egypt Constantine V killed 12 000 in 744 like i mentioned for their betreyal in 740

so one is kept under check by good political strategy , the other one is still licking its wounds from the prevoius massacre .

but i will dedicate chapters to religion .


-I feel you went way overboard with the early deaths of the Emperors, probably as an overreaction to the long reign of Constans. The early death of his son Constantine makes sense since he would be relatively old himself given how long his father reigned. So okay the first regency but then immediately after a second one... at the very least that is one quick death too many. Historically obv. such things happened but narratively it is meh at best.

eh i did do it as reaction of constans 4 decade long rule , Constantine was old also like olt he most likely going by his mosaics had cancer or leucemia the dude was 30 and looked like a corpse if the mosaics are to be trusted

as for justinian well , i mean like you said it makes sense historicaly sure dying of a stroke does not sound awesome but it does happen, but like you said its not the best narrtively i gotta keep the historical realisim and narrtive in balance so things dont becomes to boring or ABS for the sake of the plot.


--So the Heraclian dynasty is finished? Why is that? Did Tiberius have no children? What about Heraclius Jr. did he have children or his brother before he died? Seems odd to just give up the imperial crown just like that. Maybe anything but a son of Tiberius was not possible because of the influence Leo's family had. Anyway pity to see their end.

Not by a long shot , i said that Constantine V married a heraclian , other wise the dude was never becomeing emperor , and gave birth to a daughter named Irine (not iriene of athens by the way) , tiberuis is still alive i wil get to his childen soon enougth.

but i guess this a problem with my style of telling the story i put tiny references , like for example heraclius other "campaing" and people when the chapter comes out says thats lazy or thats bad.

but in my mind its just that a tease , its like rigth now iam not going to tell you since it adds nothing to the story Rigth now , but the topic will rise again in a certian context . just as it did when Constans was invading hispania there i put the context and the backstory of Heraclius other "campaing"


-As I said I love your timeline idea, and I can tell you know a lot about history. Which is probably the only reason I stuck to this timeline since as you are aware your English is less than optimal to say the least. That is the key difference, some timelines have awful English but the story is not strong enough or believable enough to hold my attention, you certainly succeeded in that regard. While I will keep reading your work regardless maybe consider getting an editor?

All in all an interesting and reasonable timeline, it is great and keep it up m8 : )[/QUOTE]

i think i will get and editor
 
Thanks for the replies, they make a lot of sense to me. Personally I quite dislike ignoring butterflies, especially when it comes to unborn people, what are the odds a particular sperm finds a particular egg? Astronomical. Even if by familial inertia the kid has the same name they will be a different person on a fundamental level even ignoring changed circumstances of their life, they would grow to be totally different. However, while it is unscientific I can accept it as a artistic choice so I can enjoy a story like that regardless.
 
Hispania and frankia
730s

After the battle of Tours, Charles Martel directed his attention to Septimania, In 737 the Frankish leader went on to attack Narbonne, the ruler there held firm, his city survived until. Duke Pelagius, Tariq, and king askel himself went to the north and defeated Charles at the battle of Narbonne, Charles had to go back north without subduing Narbonne, and had to pay a hefty ransom for his freedom and safe passage back to Frankia, This also bolster the wealth of Askel

746-752
The civil war was over, and reconstruction could begin, In this time In the great general Tariq died, His burial was attended by askel many Berber nobles, on his visit to Hispania the new Emperor thought that he could increase the taxes on this wealthy region. Hispania was still wealthy, despite losing most of their capable soldiers, the same was for the Berber empire as a whole, due to this and the new emperor respect for his uncle, he said that No new taxes were to be levied on Hispania, this allowed Askel to continue to spend his treasury on his kingdom, he had remade Hispania into a thriving province. Ever since his defeat at tours Askel dedicated more time to internal matters as he was getting old and became less worried about conquest and raids.

Roman aqueducts were being rebuilt alongside many construction projects, With the news that no new taxes were to be implemented, this was great news to the king, since Askel had a dream that Toledo would become a city that would rival Constantinople, so he ordered the construction of a massive cathedral as a sing of his wealth and to calm down the clergy, who had a distaste for him due to him limiting their powers and not allowing them to choose the king at least not directly anymore, but their new income was stronger than their "hate" of the invader, he also began construction on a new library and many other works around the whole kingdom.

To show that the Berbers were just as if not greater than the current Romans at building magnificent works of architecture, after some years of work. Askel would die in 752 leaving the throne to Askel II, luckily by his death both his cathedral and library were finished, the next year Do to him being busy in Bulgaria, emperor Constantine proposed to the Franks attack Hispania more specifically septemenia and Pippin son of Charles Martel and they did, as he headed south to Septimania when he did gothic nobles declared their loyalty to the Frankish king.

The Gothic nobles and the Franks then began to besiege Narbonne, however, the strong gothic Garrison of Narbonne survived the Carolingian assault, also his fears of an attack of a basque rearguard by a Basque army under the Aquitanian duke didn't make things easy for Pippin, by 754 as the city was being besieged, an anti-Frank reaction, led by Ermeniard, killed Ansemund, but the uprising was without success and Radulf was designated new count by the Frankish court.

Still, pippin abandoned his attacks and concentrated on internal matters as he was to make sure that no other Lord would rebel when he was attacking the Berbers. still by 759 the 5 years long "peace" was broken as Peppin marched against the Berbers for the second time. Narbonne was put under siege again and unlike the previous attack, the Frankish king had learned from his mistake Narbonne capitulated peacefully only after Pippin promised the defenders that he would keep the Roman law intact and the county was granted to Miló.

Still, the king of Hispania went with an army to recover it putting the army of the north under his direct command, he led the army to ....slaughter almost all the northern army was killed by the Franks with the army of the north defeated, the new king pleased to the emperor to help him. But the Berber army was not prepared, most of them had not seen battle as
they had to rebuild the army from almost nothing after their defeats and the civil war.

Timidity won the day the Berber emperor sent nearly 2000 troops not enough to deal with the Frankish menace seeing that he was alone and with his probability of winning lowered the king of Hispania surrender and the region of Roussillon was taken by the Franks in 760, these events made a further divide between the 2 Berber realms
 
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fall of the avar khaganate
765

A new peace treaty was signed in addition to fulfilling most of his objectives Constantine also thought of preparing to attack him, but first, he needed it to take care of the northern problem, this peace finally allowed him to deal with them, Due to the avar -Slavic attacks, as the thematic armies and the principality of Croatia moved with Constantine leading them, as they attacked, the Italian army moved from the north of the peninsula to attack from the southwest.

After a year and half, the Avars avoided any confrontation limiting their armies to harass supply chains, pick off smaller groups, and in some cases night attacks, but now with the Romans pushing them back further, the Avars began to flee from roman armies heading to the north,despite not fully recovering from the civil war telerig moved against the Slavs and Avars, attacking from the southeast.

No one knows for certainty, but many say it was, to expand his territory and new subjects, to get booty and to show good sing of friendship and get good favor from the Romans when they attacked and the Romans pushed deeper. Tribal infighting began; this truly showed the weakness of the khaganate, by 768 Constantine captured a large, fortified encampment known as "the Ring", which contained many spoils of the khaganate, riches that he sent back to the capital.

After this many Slavic’s tribes rebelled or even joined the Romans and Bulgars, now the avar realm was torn apart, during this time Constantine sent the duke Spoleto to another campaign in the west, by late 769, the Romans had pushed deep and met the Bulgar army near the old Dacia. The 3 thematic armies, the principality of Croatia, the Italian army, telerig army and Slavic soldiers, which they had defeated Avars and Slavs, now with all armies combined they had 60 000 men, 40 000 Romans, with 15 000 Bulgars and 5000 Slavs that joined them, while the Avars had barely 25 000 with Slavic auxiliaries.


The battle rather than the slaughter lasted barely 30 minutes, the avar nobility was almost slaughter to a man and with the victory of the first and last pitched battle of the whole campaign. During the battle, the khan slayer had killed the avar khan, with the death of the khan and the nobility dead, the collapse of the khaganate was now imminent. In the next year, the Avar chieftains had surrendered, The avar khaganate was the scourge of the Balkans, the people who nearly killed Great Heraclius. Was reduced to nothing., soon the spoils were shared between the 2 powers, Bulgaria nearly doubled in size, but Constantine made sure the Bulgarian roman border in the Danube didn’t grow.

The Romans extended their territories to the north of the Danube, Also to balance power with the Bulgars and to have power north of the Danube, Constantine installed various Slavic principalities as client states, and tied them so that they were rivals, and therefore won’t unite against the empires, but also stayed with the empire due to the distrust of the Bulgarian empire.

Constantine also installed the remaining avar nobility into a smaller khanate. All these successes strengthen the Romans' military and financially, he also converted the nobility to the Romans under the duke of Spoleto also took Carantania as another client state. It’s a preparation of what was to come next.
 
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balkans 770 AD

roman empire ( purple)
bulgarian empire (green)
slavic principalities( those in Between the bulgarians and romans)
avar remenat ( east of Carantania )
Carantania ( ligth purple north east of italy)

balkan 770.png
 
joined the, who
This is an especially confusing mistake, because at that point we don't know who the Slavs would ally with Rome or Bulgaria. It is pretty clear after that it is Romans but still, worth fixing.
r the duke of Spoleto also took Carantania
Is carantania populated by the proto-Slovenes? Or some other group. Provided the question is not spoilerific.

Anyway good update, this new Bulgaria could grow immensely, perhaps becoming a kind of proto-Russia in that it unites many Slavs. I see no real checks to their expansion other than Romans deciding they are too powerful (won't happen soon), a massive confederation of Slavs or some powerful horde. Interesting to see where they go so gief more updates :p
 
the council of the elders of italy
770

Leo son of Kosmo, exchart of Ravenna was visiting Rome; the city was in celebration due to Constantine victory over the scourge of the north the avar khaganate they arrived in the Flavian amphitheater, reconstructed by the great heraclian emperors, reconstruction began in 670 but did not finish until 690, But the biggest addition was a statue of Constans II were the colossus of Nero was with the sword of Heraclius and the orb of and cross To show that the conqueror, or liberator of Italy and the west along saving the church from the romans, The Column of Phocas was rededicated to Constantine IV.

One of the mosaics In the city showed Constans II bowing to Christ, outside of the theater people were debating on who would win in the many spectacles of today’s game, as performers were on the streets, while the markets of the city were busy and men were throwing bread to the poor of the city, also the stars of the games were outside, and many commented that they could not believe that the Romans or anyone could build.

As the exchart entered and went to his seat so did the other important rulers of Italy, the crowd of thousands cheered his name, the name of the duke of Spoleto and the name of the emperor, the celebration finally began with chariot races, Then performers came with marvelous spectacles. Then the next events where wrestlers and many fights occurred, as many people cheered and many laughed when they won their debates on who would win, like the Romans of old they debated on the minute details like speed vs strength, the final fight of the day would be an Italian vs an Anatolian, the fight was long but the Anatolian managed to win.

The announcer then said that he hoped the games were to everyone’s enjoyment as they ended for now.

Once the games were over, the exchart the duke and the important nobles left the place and Reunited in the old reconstructed Domitian’s palace. Everyone greeted each other

Leo spoke and said: I wish we could all have reunited just for the games, sadly we must reunite to speak of the danger that is coming, and most of you know what I am talking about the … franks.

It is clear that its new king Charles has an interest in Carantania and the lands of Pannonia some reports even say he even wants to attack Italy and go beyond the Po river.


All men knew that Charles had an interest in Carantania but not Italy. One noble said: this can’t be, no barbarian has ever attacked Italy south of the Po river for over 100 years.

Another noble said: Charles had inherited a kingdom with no real enemies as the Berbers were defeated and with them gone, the dukes of Aquitaine lost their ally

It was a matter of time before the Frankish king took the duchy. Now he is interested in the empire’s land


The duke of Spoleto Transamund III spoke: so with no real opposition in the west, he will turn to Pannonia, Italy, and Carantania.

If he intends to attack the area recently conquered by his majesty, we should worry as there are no real defenses there.

Maybe we can have possible allies to undermine that:
said, Leo

We have, the Berbers but I doubt they would attack the franks, but the Slavs would join us

One count said: the Bulgars might help since if Charles conquers the lands of the north, they would attack them as well

Another count said: What about the other barbarians to the north, The Saxons and the other Germanic tribes.

I suggest that the emperor make an alliance with the Bulgars, they might betray the empire if the franks ask them to attack the Slavs, or if they feel that the emperor
: said the duke of Spoleto

And to construct fortifications among the po and the Danube Rivers said a count.

Leo and most agreed, the next days the games continued, and when they ended they reunited to debate, after debates most agreed that conscription must be augmented to more people and that new forts shall be constructed, and that the emperor should sign a new treaty with the Bulgars, the council sent their decision to the emperor; He approved the idea since right now Constantine was overseeing internal policies. His biggest problem was that of succession he had no male heir, but someone caught his attention. Tiberius the old emperor's third son, Constants he was young barely 11, but he was intelligent. He would not choose him outright but he was going to test him if he was the best candidate.
 
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This is an especially confusing mistake, because at that point we don't know who the Slavs would ally with Rome or Bulgaria. It is pretty clear after that it is Romans but still, worth fixing.

Is carantania populated by the proto-Slovenes? Or some other group. Provided the question is not spoilerific.

Anyway good update, this new Bulgaria could grow immensely, perhaps becoming a kind of proto-Russia in that it unites many Slavs. I see no real checks to their expansion other than Romans deciding they are too powerful (won't happen soon), a massive confederation of Slavs or some powerful horde. Interesting to see where they go so gief more updates :p
Yes the área is a proto slavic nation
In terms of Bulgaria , the civil war and consolidatío no the new territory would keep the romans calm as their state has to recover
 
Frankish roman war
August 771

The Frankish king with his uncle invaded the Roman client state of Carantania, this surprised the Romans as they did not expect the invasion to occur so soon, news also came from the theme of Armenia that the Khazar army was raiding as well, Charles had proposed to them to split the provinces they wanted of the roman empire, the emperor before he moved the tagmata need to be sure that Persia would not attack as if his suspicion were true and the franks and the Khazar khaganate made a deal of sort who is to say that the franks didn't make a treaty with the Persians promising Mesopotamia, so Constantine wrote instruction to the themes and the exchart of Ravenna on how to deal with the franks, Unfortunately for him, the duke of Spoleto was visiting northern Italy, he and some governors moved against the franks.

Charles heard about this move and took half of his forces leaving his uncle to conquer the region, the duke and the northern Italian army had to cross the Alps, and do what they did.
Taking one of the routes that Hannibal used, he intended to scare the franks forcing them to leave the roman client state, but the Frankish scouts informed the king about this maneuver, when the duke finally got to the pass, the franks waited Charles put himself at the head of part of his forces.

Not wanting to retreat the duke charged the franks retreated but then they stood their ground, soon a signal was made The Frankish soldiers came out descending and surrounded the roman forces, despite having superior equipment, training and numbers, the tuff and battle harden franks would have been a good match in a normal battle, but in this spot the Romans stood no chance

In the chaos the duke of Spoleto was slain, alongside many other important officials like the governor of Pavia, alongside them, the northern Italian army was almost annihilated and only a few thousand me it back to Italy, after the victory Charles returned to carantania, where his uncle had taken most of the region except for the main fortress who was under siege, the franks intended to starve it out as they had no choice since they had no siege engines.

The rest of the Italian army was ready to move but the news of the slaughter was enough to deter them, Even so, they was busy and the excarch was not sure of what to do so it became a stalemate till winter.
 
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Second roman khazar war
When Charles and the Khazars attacked, he was worried that the Persians might attack, Sha Khurshid was in the 25th year of his rule and he had no intention to break the peace while at peace with the tang he knew that the peace was weak and if Constantine desired he could call to them for aid , but the sha did want to scare the emperor , he had wasted much of the treasury on His projects and had neglected the payment of the army, so he said he would uphold the peace but in exchange, he wanted a payment he made it sure that this was not to be seen as a tribute but as assistance, as the emperor would assist him to pay his troops and he would assist him by sending soldiers to join the 3 Caucasian princes against the Khazars.

Both men heled their part of the agreement, With that settled, Constantine moved against the Khazars, the themes of Chaldea, to a lesser extent Armenia and the most attacked Albania, had been affected by raids, as the Khazar crossed the Alan Gates the main force moved to Albania they took this route since Derbent was too well fortified, despite this, the Albanians knew that they could also not attack their capital as the nomads moved it to Samadar if marching to Balajar to march to new capital was not an option, however, the princes and the strategos, learned from the previous war, the nomads did have greater mobility, but the mountains where perfect chokepoints here the themata, for attacks, picking of scouting parties, and small detachments, slowing down the Khazars advance to the empire.

Still, Constantine arrived in the region with the tagmata and more forces after some days of chasing the Khazars, the battle was near Tavush, and the first ones to charge were the 58-year-old prince Ashot and prince Javanshir II the roman force led by the strategos of Armenia and prince Stephen IV decided to attack the Khazar left and managed to inflict some casualties, but the left flank and even push it back, soon the Byzantine center and left by engaged, the Khazars with few options decided to retreat.

Constantine knew this trick all too well and told his troops to stop the pursuit, the Khazar commander seeing that the Romans did not follow him had two options when the feign retreat failed, return and face the roman force or retreat, he chose the latter.

Constantine retreated to his camp and waited for another day of fighting but it never came, his scouts told him that the Khazar force fled the victory took the pressure on the 2 themes, as the Khazars quickly retreated the later sources said Constantine chased them so fast that they barely had time to raid and soon they crossed the Alan gates, the victory and flight of the Khazar also took of pressure from the Bulgars who were also facing the Khazars but got defeated in some battles, Constantine in his pursuit handed some defeat to the nomads and was now in Phasis still winter had arrived, now he had time to think.

The emperor was left with a dilemma does he continue and like last time cross the Caucasus and attack the Khazars, letting the Slavs and romans take care of the Frankish king, or does he leave for the west and attack Charles, and leave the themes to defend against nomadic raids.
 
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I think it is criminal how little attention your TL is getting, there should be more likes and comments. It is really good, you know your history and it is just plain interesting. As I said I think it is mostly your bad English that is holding you back. If you care to increase the number of readers it might be a good idea to go over it all with an editor and repost the edited pages in a new thread as they come while this one goes on as usual. I can volunteer myself but I will work slowly with all my own engagements so more of us helping you would be better. Let me know what you think.

As for the story while I still enjoy it as my likes show nothing huge has happened yet so not much to add. The war itself could be big, if Charles is as capable a leader ITTL as OTL though as I said before that seems unlikely, we will see I guess.
 
I think it is criminal how little attention your TL is getting, there should be more likes and comments. It is really good, you know your history and it is just plain interesting. As I said I think it is mostly your bad English that is holding you back. If you care to increase the number of readers it might be a good idea to go over it all with an editor and repost the edited pages in a new thread as they come while this one goes on as usual. I can volunteer myself but I will work slowly with all my own engagements so more of us helping you would be better. Let me know what you think.

As for the story while I still enjoy it as my likes show nothing huge has happened yet so not much to add. The war itself could be big, if Charles is as capable a leader ITTL as OTL though as I said before that seems unlikely, we will see I guess.
you know i might think about it and even so thanks for your support
 
the shame of constantine
When spring arrived The Khazar khagan got involved in the war and had a new war strategy, he was a capable commander himself he knew that facing Constantine was quite a risk, The emperor knew all the nomadic tactics, and as his name said it all, he was the slayer of khans.

So the khan changed his strategy he would plunder cities take a portion of the loot and flee using the nomad’s superior nobility and make the Romans chase him, and then he could harass them as the themata did to his troops before with this he could send the brunt of his troops against the Bulgars this strategy worked in the Bulgarian front, the Khazar entered northeastern Bulgaria was raided, Telerig responded advancing to Khazar lands, here the details of the battle are shrouded but most sources agree that telerig forces advanced defeating Slavic and Khazar forces unit he reached the Dnieper river were they crossed

Here they engaged and routed the Khazar forces who fell and crossed the river losing many, despite this many Bulgars gave chase, the men were angry at these “hubs” that not only destroyed the land of their ancestors, but attacked them and had killed or sold their families to slavery, telerig tried to stop this, but even his brother moved, the disorganized troops where barely arriving at the other side of the river But seeing this the Khazarssreturned and massacred the one who crossed and rained arrows on those crossing, among them the brother of telerig, according to a later roman source, the khan saw his son corpse floating around the river, the same source said that the khan began to wept for his brother and had to be dragged out by his troops in fear that his death might lead to Bulgaria falling into the horrible civil war period that it just left 20 years ago.

Constantine heard the news, then bad news arrived from Italy after he read the letter, he knew now who the real enemies were, Constantine knew the decisive battle with the Khazars make take years as the khagan avoided any battle but that hit and run tactic made them just a nuisance to him, but he could not allow this raid counter raid, cat mouse chase going on. In late 772 Basileus Constantine v and Khazar khaganhagan Kaban II met, quickly peace treaty was enforced, the emperor would allow the khagan to take the wealth he plundered from and the emperor would further pay him for the next 5 years his orders were just to leave imperial territory including the Bulgarian territory that was considered a roman ally Constantine did say if he broke his promise he would hunt his army down.

And so while the peace treaty was not popular but Constantine saw it as a necessary evil . Since the emperor had to face the real threat that was Charles .
 
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Ghost of past invasions
Early 772

Charles had taken Carantania, then he moved and attack avar remnant and some of the Slavic principalities, taking the countryside but having trouble with the forts, this was because a part of the thematic armies and Slavs were harassing him and attacking the supply chain. The sieges dragged out, here the thematic forces harassed them, this continued for some during the siege of Keszthely the capital of the avar remnant, the avar khan had fled to join the southern armies, while the defenders with the help of the thematic force made a sortie killing at least a few hounded Franks, the avar khan had fled to join the southern armies, it seem like someone important officers died and rumors began to circle that Charles had died.

This news reached the bulk of The armies of the 3 themes which were marching to Italy, the franks heard this they began to abandon the siege and left the avar remanent, even though Constantine had given specific orders for them not to engage, strategos said to follow but the third said that we would not, he continued his march towards Italy, the 2 thematic armies, began to chase the Frankish force, The chase continued for 9 days, until they caught up near Wachau, on the last day of chase the Roman armies found the Franks finishing crossing the river, soon the Romans began to cross as well.

The franks waited that 1/3 of the Roman force to cross And then the franks attacked, the Romans tried to fight, and one strategos was given soon room and nearly turned the tide of battle, but he died by an enemy archer, soon the roman force routed, Charles then sent his archers, many were killed by them but most drowned, the defeat allowed Charles to escape and keep Carantania, some Slavic principalities sent secret promises of neutrality and some even wanted to join him, Even so now the Frankish king soon planed his raiding parties to attack into Bulgar and Roman territory.

But Charles set his eyes on northern Italy and so he crossed the Alps in September before winter arrived there he defeated a local force then in October Charles laid siege to Milan, however, the Heraclian walls were to be a great challenge to the king of the franks, around the same time The Peace was signed by the emperor with the Khazars and now he moved to deal with the Frankish king.
 
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battle of Velika Kapela
Late 772

Constantine moved he would stick to the coast as the route of the Danube was a risk, he did not trust the Slavic principalities he even doubted to a certain extent the Bulgars , not telerig but his nobles still the khan had sent 2000 Bulgarian horsemen, who had done his best dealing the Frankish raid but he knew the emperor would need them more than him and this he showed that he still supported the emperor.

Charles then sent his uncle Bernard, they did not know this was the emperor and his excubitors, they thought it was imperial reinforcements to Italy, Charles strategy was to provoke the armies to attack him since he knew that he could not take Milan by assaults, but if he could provoke the imperial armies to attack him, and if he crushed them then the defenders would surrender and other forts would have fewer men , the idea was good but emperor Constantine prohibited any army to engage the franks, except for harassment and killing scouting and foraging party, so if he killed their reinforcements maybe it could provoke the battle he so desperately wanted.

After two weeks both armies encountered each other by this point the prince of Croatia had joined the Romans, the armies met near the river Sontig and the town Gorizia as Constantine had heard that the franks were near the forest knowing the risk he chose the place where they would meet The Frankish lord had 10 000 men compared to 9 000 as he told part his force to go to Italy he also knew that bigger numbers in the terrain with a narrow entrance would make his force in a worse position, The emperor placed infantry in the first line, archers in the second line in the flanks. With himself and the excubitors in the center of the second line, He also hid the cataphracts and Bulgarian cavalry in the forest nearby.

constantine V2.png


The Frankish lord sent their cavalry to break the roman center, but the Romans held the line and pushed them back, now it was time Constantine sent the signal.
The Bulgar cavalry moved, to an unsuspecting Frankish cavalry. By the time the Frankish infantry had entered most of the cavalry had been killed.
battle 2.1.png

The reason why they took so long it’s because they had to pass their troops in a small area, here the Bulgarian cavalry tried to attack, but the Frankish lord already knew about the bulgars and managed to divert a force to stop them, as the Frankish infantry engaged the roman infantry and began to push them back.

It seemed like they were going to break, but the emperor maintained the discipline, but then Constantine gave another signal, now the cataphracts came and attacked from the right, this attacked crushed the Frankish lines, now Bernard retreaded before his whole army died, but still, the infantry and cavalry surrounded a Frankish pocket.

battle final.png

Still, the franks lost anywhere from 2000, while the emperor lost less than 500, Charles who was still besieging Milan, he heard the news but he was surprised and waited for his uncle when he returned he explained the events, When Charles heard the story, he did not rebuke his uncle rather he was surprised that he whole army had not died, he knew who was responsible for this, for only one could have committed this defeat with minimal casualties, Charles knew it was a matter of time would now face his biggest threat, the roman emperor Constantine V.
 
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well here comes the fun basileus constantine V vs frankish king Charles

iam kinda curious how you the 5 people who read the series will think how the byzantine frankish war will be and end so i wanna hear your prediction
 
Hmm. Well I still can't get a read on this would be Charlemagne, is he as good as OTL or not. Leaning on yes. Which would seem to hand him victory by virtue of badassitude alone. Constantine isn't coming in with overwhelming numbers either, many armies have been smashed already. OTOH the Empire already took its licks, this is restoration time.

I am guessing Charles gets kicked out of Italy and Panonia but keeps Caranthania then probably mows down the Saxons per OTL. Bavaria too if he hasn't already. Setting up a long term rival for Rome.

Alternatively he goes for a sweep, all of North Italy and gets the Pope to declare him Emperor instead.

EDIT: When the war with Charles is over a map of the world would be nice.
 
Hmm. Well I still can't get a read on this would be Charlemagne, is he as good as OTL or not. Leaning on yes. Which would seem to hand him victory by virtue of badassitude alone. Constantine isn't coming in with overwhelming numbers either, many armies have been smashed already. OTOH the Empire already took its licks, this is restoration time.

I am guessing Charles gets kicked out of Italy and Panonia but keeps Caranthania then probably mows down the Saxons per OTL. Bavaria too if he hasn't already. Setting up a long term rival for Rome.

Alternatively he goes for a sweep, all of North Italy and gets the Pope to declare him Emperor instead.

EDIT: When the war with Charles is over a map of the world would be nice.
i kinda of always make maps after a war either way nice prediction
 
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