With a POD in 500 AD have a Herulian nationstate emerge in the Balkans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herules
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herules
With a POD in 500 AD have a Herulian nationstate emerge in the Balkans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herules
Short History of Herulland
[Here OTL ends, and ATL starts.]
When the Herulian kingdom was vanquised in war by the Lombards, a large portion of the Herulian populations searched for sanctuary in the Eastern Roman Empire. There they served as foederati for East Roman Emperors. They settled in around what was named 'Singidunum', upon whichs soil Belgrade now stands.
Famous Herulians in the service include Pharus, who commanded the Herulian forces loyal to Constantinopel. Besides Pharus thousands of Herulians served in the armies of Constantinopel.
Once Byzantine(East Roman Empire) lost control of the Balkans, and barbarian warlords took controll of much of the peninsula, the Herulians moved south towards what was still under Byzantine controll. At one point the Herulian nation split into two. One part which opted for a life in the Balkans outside the controll of the Byzantines. Most of which moved into isolated mountainous areas. Some Herulian warriors took up employment in the warbands of warlords. The second part decided to continue to live under Constantinopels rule. They settled in eastern Anatolia, where they were granted land.
[Anyone wanna fill the hole?]
In the 19th century as nationalism gripped Europe, there also developed an interest for nationalism in Herulians. Nationalists sought to collect Herulian songs, tales, history, folkelore, religious practices, etc. Much weight was placed on the distinct Herulian religious practices. The Herulian church was in large part a synthesis of Christian and pre-christian elements. This often led to it being accused of being non-christian. Among which the practices of polygamy and senicide were often brought up, by critics. As the Herulian people mostly lived as a minority, nationalists had difficulty explaining where Herulian nationstate should be located. Another view was that there was no need for a Herulian nationstate, most Herulians after all lived in the Ottoman empire. They did not inhabit competing and warring states. This was the view that dominated untill the late 20th century.
As the Ottoman empire lost control over much of the Balkans, the situation of the Balkan Herulians changed. In the place of the Ottoman empire there now existed multiple states. Among which were Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, Montenegro and Serbia. Many of the new nationstates sought to assimilate the Herulians, a offer which few Herulians took up. Those who did were often shunned by the Herulian community. Shunning was more common in rural communities than in urban ones.
During World War 2 the Herulian were generally treated better by the axis than their Slavic and Greek counterparts. Something which created resentment towards the Herulians. Following the Axis defeat many Herulians would be accused and sentenced for collaborating with Axis occupiers. The Germans also established a Herulian state in Kosovo which had a significant Herulian minority. Part of the Serbian population of Kosovo were also resettled by the Germans and Herulian collaborators into Serbia proper. Later following the Axis defeat much of the expelled Serbs of Kosovo resettled. The countryside remained changed from what it had been before WW2. Most of the Serbian returnees opted to live in cities, while the Herulians remained predominantly urban.
Following WW2 the difference in the birth rate between Serbs and Herulians grew large. Mostly because of the decline in the Serbian birth rate. The migration of Serbian youth to the metropoles of Yugoslavia also contributed. From 1945-1990 the Herulian fertiliy rate was 4 times that of the Serbian. During this period the Serbian Kosovars had a fertility rate of 2,5 while the Herulian Kosovars had a fertility rate of 10. Fear of losing Kosovo to a coming Herulian majority sparked the impetus for a expulsion of Serbia's Herulians. Herulian nationalists began creating organisations that aimed to fight for a Herulian homeland. Most were not against achiving this using military force. NATO also intervened in the Herulians favor. By 1992 a independent Herulian state had emerged, recognised by most of NATO's member states.
It's easier that wayI like it, except butterfly genocide. The 19th century shouldn’t go exactly the same as it did IOTL with a POD over a thousand years before.
Maybe independance of Herulian Kosovo could be achived peacefully ATL?I like it, except butterfly genocide. The 19th century shouldn’t go exactly the same as it did IOTL with a POD over a thousand years before.
The point of this short TL was to show that for a Herulian nationstate to appear it does not need to be continues in time. Meaning that it can surface, submerge and resurface. The Herulian nationstate does not need to be set in present day. It could be set in 800AD or 1500AD. Maybe it only appeared for a short period and then dissapeared?Short History of Herulland
[Here OTL ends, and ATL starts.]
When the Herulian kingdom was vanquised in war by the Lombards, a large portion of the Herulian populations searched for sanctuary in the Eastern Roman Empire. There they served as foederati for East Roman Emperors. They settled in around what was named 'Singidunum', upon whichs soil Belgrade now stands.
Famous Herulians in the service include Pharus, who commanded the Herulian forces loyal to Constantinopel. Besides Pharus thousands of Herulians served in the armies of Constantinopel.
Once Byzantine(East Roman Empire) lost control of the Balkans, and barbarian warlords took controll of much of the peninsula, the Herulians moved south towards what was still under Byzantine controll. At one point the Herulian nation split into two. One part which opted for a life in the Balkans outside the controll of the Byzantines. Most of which moved into isolated mountainous areas. Some Herulian warriors took up employment in the warbands of warlords. The second part decided to continue to live under Constantinopels rule. They settled in eastern Anatolia, where they were granted land.
[Anyone wanna fill the hole?]
In the 19th century as nationalism gripped Europe, there also developed an interest for nationalism in Herulians. Nationalists sought to collect Herulian songs, tales, history, folkelore, religious practices, etc. Much weight was placed on the distinct Herulian religious practices. The Herulian church was in large part a synthesis of Christian and pre-christian elements. This often led to it being accused of being non-christian. Among which the practices of polygamy and senicide were often brought up, by critics. As the Herulian people mostly lived as a minority, nationalists had difficulty explaining where Herulian nationstate should be located. Another view was that there was no need for a Herulian nationstate, most Herulians after all lived in the Ottoman empire. They did not inhabit competing and warring states. This was the view that dominated untill the late 20th century.
As the Ottoman empire lost control over much of the Balkans, the situation of the Balkan Herulians changed. In the place of the Ottoman empire there now existed multiple states. Among which were Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, Montenegro and Serbia. Many of the new nationstates sought to assimilate the Herulians, a offer which few Herulians took up. Those who did were often shunned by the Herulian community. Shunning was more common in rural communities than in urban ones.
During World War 2 the Herulian were generally treated better by the axis than their Slavic and Greek counterparts. Something which created resentment towards the Herulians. Following the Axis defeat many Herulians would be accused and sentenced for collaborating with Axis occupiers. The Germans also established a Herulian state in Kosovo which had a significant Herulian minority. Part of the Serbian population of Kosovo were also resettled by the Germans and Herulian collaborators into Serbia proper. Later following the Axis defeat much of the expelled Serbs of Kosovo resettled. The countryside remained changed from what it had been before WW2. Most of the Serbian returnees opted to live in cities, while the Herulians remained predominantly urban.
Following WW2 the difference in the birth rate between Serbs and Herulians grew large. Mostly because of the decline in the Serbian birth rate. The migration of Serbian youth to the metropoles of Yugoslavia also contributed. From 1945-1990 the Herulian fertiliy rate was 4 times that of the Serbian. During this period the Serbian Kosovars had a fertility rate of 2,5 while the Herulian Kosovars had a fertility rate of 10. Fear of losing Kosovo to a coming Herulian majority sparked the impetus for a expulsion of Serbia's Herulians. Herulian nationalists began creating organisations that aimed to fight for a Herulian homeland. Most were not against achiving this using military force. NATO also intervened in the Herulians favor. By 1992 a independent Herulian state had emerged, recognised by most of NATO's member states.
Romance languages did OTL persist for a longer timespan in what is todays the coastline of Yugoslavia. The last confirmed speaker died in 1898.They need to settled a place, where they get away from the migration highway. I think a migration into western Bosnia and Dalmatia or into Slovenia-Istria would increase their chance of survival. While this area was overrun by the Slavs in OTL the terrain increase their survival chances.
How many people would be needed to 'hold' the area bolded.They need to settled a place, where they get away from the migration highway. I think a migration into western Bosnia and Dalmatia or into Slovenia-Istria would increase their chance of survival. While this area was overrun by the Slavs in OTL the terrain increase their survival chances.
How many people would be needed to 'hold' the area bolded.
I don't know how many Herules there existed during the late antiquity. The only times i remember seeing numbers, is regarding the number of warriors. These numbers range ffrom 3 thousand to 'several' thousand. Is it possible to estimate the total Herulian population from these estimates? Would the Herulians have the numbers to become the majority in Istria?Istria is home to half a million people while Krk are home 10.000 the other island have fewer people, the coastline from Rijeka to Zadar are very much underpopulated because of the terrain.
I would say to survive they need to be in majority in Istria, and they need to control the central highland.