HenryVIth more like his father

A common perception nowadays is that HenryVIth wasn't all there. However what would be the outcome if instead he had been Henry Vth part 2 ( with apologies to Shakespeare who may not now exist as a playwright). I would assume that the Yorks get very short shrift and are executed at one time or another. Likewise with the French Royal family. So does Edward IVth (Henry's son as Edward of York is never crowned) inherit a kingdom comprising England, Wales, Ireland and basically all non-Burgundian France?
 
A common perception nowadays is that HenryVIth wasn't all there. However what would be the outcome if instead he had been Henry Vth part 2 ( with apologies to Shakespeare who may not now exist as a playwright). I would assume that the Yorks get very short shrift and are executed at one time or another. Likewise with the French Royal family. So does Edward IVth (Henry's son as Edward of York is never crowned) inherit a kingdom comprising England, Wales, Ireland and basically all non-Burgundian France?

1) The crown is still up to its ears in debt. Maybe more.

2) Why would York be executed? Up to near the actual outbreak of open war, he's been a loyal and useful vassal.

3) See #1 - good luck continuing the war even if Junior is in daddy's footsteps. I assume that Henry V still dies too young, if not the first two apply anyhow.

4) No.
 
Being in debt never stopped English Kings before or after.

Being this badly in debt is going to seriously interfere with - as it did OTL - fighting the war.

So yes, it will stop them. Doesn't mean he can't try, but if you're looking at will he be able to succeed its a pretty substantial barrier when the king is so badly in debt that he can't afford Christmas dinner because the tradesmen don't trust his credit.

Plain and simple, armies cost money, and money that isn't there is not going to allow for raising the forces needed.
 
True, I'd forgotten the bit about Christmas. However if he is a chip off the old block would he still be in as much debt as he would be very much more successful and people will lend to the winning side?
 
Being this badly in debt is going to seriously interfere with - as it did OTL - fighting the war.

So yes, it will stop them. Doesn't mean he can't try, but if you're looking at will he be able to succeed its a pretty substantial barrier when the king is so badly in debt that he can't afford Christmas dinner because the tradesmen don't trust his credit.

Plain and simple, armies cost money, and money that isn't there is not going to allow for raising the forces needed.

Of course, France was also badly in debt. It's a push, but the English could've won (to a point) by simple choosing the right time to spend - coupled with a better-than-average military record of course. If the two don't go hand-in-hand then they are definitely scuppered.
 
True, I'd forgotten the bit about Christmas. However if he is a chip off the old block would he still be in as much debt as he would be very much more successful and people will lend to the winning side?

Again assuming that Henry V dies as OTL, by the point Henry VI is of age, England is not the winning side.

If he dies later, that brings up its own questions before we can address what his son can do with the situation.

Edit: And even if it does look like the winning side, again - massive debt. People are not going to lend money to the side that looks like it can't/won't pay its bills.

Henry VI being in the debt he was in was precisely because the crown couldn't afford to pay for Henry V's ambitions and had to rely on loans - which if not paid back are going to only mean more debt as money is borrowed to satisfy existing loans, if anyone is willing to lend money to such a bad debtor.
 
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If you want to give Henry VI a chance, he might be on better footing if his father lives another 20 years and he favours his father. The Lancastrian line is also going to be more stable if his parents have more children which is likely since his mother was very fertile in the OTL timeline. In that scenario, people like York won't have as much of a chance to put themselves forward as heir.
 
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