Henry VIII of England

WI: He had died very suddenly, in perhaps a freak accident such as falling from his horse, very soon after the birth of Elizabeth. Does Anne Boleyn remarry? Who controls the regency?
 
Probably her father the Earl of Wiltshire and uncle the Duke of Norfolk in the immediate aftermath. Anne's remarrying depends a lot on whether she and her daughter actually survive...chances of Mary taking the throne with Spanish/Catholic support would be incredibly high.
 
This is a very, very, very likely scenario. He went into a freaking coma for 3 days after falling off his horse once, yet survived. Henry VIII is someone who reached old age but really, shouldn't have.

I don't know who would control the regency. Anne herself wouldn't make a very good queen in the long run, as she was prone to wild outbursts and had a way of really offending people at court. Not the kind of people skills you want in a queen.

The TV show "The Tudors" had it that Anne Boleyn's father would be the regent, but of course that should be taken with a grain of salt;)

Edit: My Tudors-nerd girlfriend has just told me that A) I shouldn't reference the TV show and B) Highly likely that Mary takes the crown and gives Anne a haircut at the neck, and then manages to make a baby since she'll start trying to conceive earlier ITTL.
 
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Anne couldn't be Queen, period, right? Wives didn't succeed in this era (even today, spouses aren't in the line of succession in even the most progressive monarchies).
 
I think he means Queen-Regent (as she'd automatically become Queen Dowager).

As for Anne's temper, I believe a lot of it came from having to deal with Henry, his mistresses, his councillors/courtiers, Catherine and Mary.
 
Norfolk finally gets the power he's always wanted, with the major say in the regency. Depending on butterflies you could get the interesting situation where the reform minded Boleyn's end up going head to head with Norfolk, who was a staunch Catholic, over religious policy. :p

Again depending on butterflies Norfolk's position on the council could become even stronger if he can hold on for a few years as a surviving Henry FitzRoy, Henry's illegitimate son, would almost certainly be an ally of Norfolk, his father in law.

Anne Boleyn also probably does not remarry.
 
Anne Boleyn would certainly play a major role in the regency. As she is still in the midst of her power, her father, the Earl of Wiltshire, and her brother will certainly be involved as well. I have a feeling there would not be an absolute Regency, but rather a council, much how Henry VIII designed the government to function after his death IOTL (even if it didn't work out that way).

The Protestant Party will see it's influence increase tenfold, so we'd see the Reformation probably continue apace. I think Anne Boleyn would be quite interested in that. One knockoff effect may be Cromwell's fall from grace... the Queen disagreed with how he was handling the suppression. However, if a council is formed, he might be maintained, especially if Anne's father has a say, as Wiltshire had originally promoted him.

The regime is weak domestically though. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Northern Rising, and Mary would probably take up in a strong hold if possible. I imagine Charles V would use this as an excuse to aid Mary, and would offer her the hand of Dom Luis of Portugal, who was a suitor at that point. Likewise, France would probably offer to help Anne, with François Ier offering the Duke of Anjou (in 1533, François the Dauphin and Duke of Brittany as well as Henri, Duc d'Orléans who married Catherine de Medici are alive). I can see a succession war breaking out and causing the Italian War of 1536-1538 to break out sooner and be broiled into it.

One thing to admit though, Anne is on shaky ground. She was unpopular and without Henry it's going to put her in a different position, especially as Mary was quite popular. But if she's too reliant on the Spaniards, she may be able to rally English patriotism. Say, Spanish troops landing and causing atrocities, or something like that. Nevertheless, the conflict is going to be quite ugly and essentially dirty female rule within England even further.

Henry VIII wanted a son to avoid Matilda the Empress all over again, and he ends up with something much worse. If Mary wins, she'll marry Dom Luis or a suitable Catholic (and pro-Habsburg) Prince to "free" her from the burden of government. Anne's victory probably gives her a reliance on French support; perhaps the Scots take advantage of the chaos and reoccupy Berwick, with James V being quite pressing when Marie de Guise gives birth to a healthy son* in 1542 and demands that he be betrothed to the Princess Elizabeth...

*;)

Just a few ideas on how things could go, IMO. Anne would be very weak domestically and pretty isolated. France would help, but only if Spain seems likely to do something threathening.
 
The French, IIRC, were never too keen on Anne (as Queen) or Elizabeth (as heiress); it took a whole lot of pressure from Anne on Henry to eventually convince the French to stop asking for Mary's hand (they still saw her as the heiress) and agree to Elizabeth being very tentatively betrothed to, I believe, the Duc d'Orléans. I'm not sure the French would be too supportive, unless they truly believed Mary would embark on a Spanish marriage (which we all know, but which they themselves obviously didn't consider as the only possibility).

Whilst Wiltshire and Norfolk would be best positioned to take power immediately, I don't think either would remain in the long run. I also see the Reformation being rolled back almost immediately. Henry and Anne only went in the direction of the Protestant German princes because they were being shunned by Catholic Europe, but with Henry dead the situation's at least partially resolved. Mary was popular, as was FitzRoy; Henry VIII would've had the power to will the throne to FitzRoy, no problem, and/or Norfolk would had the power to set him up as King in opposition to the child.

Add Courtenay and Charles Brandon into the mix and you've got another War of the Roses.
 
Add Courtenay and Charles Brandon into the mix and you've got another War of the Roses.

Especially interesting if Henry dies before Brandon's son by Mary Tudor dies, giving the Brandon's a potential heir to the Tudor throne if Elizabeth and Mary don't survive the struggle.
 
The French, IIRC, were never too keen on Anne (as Queen) or Elizabeth (as heiress); it took a whole lot of pressure from Anne on Henry to eventually convince the French to stop asking for Mary's hand (they still saw her as the heiress) and agree to Elizabeth being very tentatively betrothed to, I believe, the Duc d'Orléans. I'm not sure the French would be too supportive, unless they truly believed Mary would embark on a Spanish marriage (which we all know, but which they themselves obviously didn't consider as the only possibility).

Whilst Wiltshire and Norfolk would be best positioned to take power immediately, I don't think either would remain in the long run. I also see the Reformation being rolled back almost immediately. Henry and Anne only went in the direction of the Protestant German princes because they were being shunned by Catholic Europe, but with Henry dead the situation's at least partially resolved. Mary was popular, as was FitzRoy; Henry VIII would've had the power to will the throne to FitzRoy, no problem, and/or Norfolk would had the power to set him up as King in opposition to the child.

Add Courtenay and Charles Brandon into the mix and you've got another War of the Roses.

No, but sometimes war makes for strange bed mates. Charles was always Katherine of Aragon's partisan and always Mary's, as well. Indeed, she always considered him her chief adviser, sometimes to the detriment of England. They'd almost immediately move to aid her if Henry VIII died, if Spain made a move. Remember, this is the time of the Italian Wars. England isn't a great power, she's just a chess piece in the Valois-Habsburg games.

As for Fitzroy, he's also an important factor. Henry could've named him as his heir, but he didn't. He never planned too either. He had a very keen idea that he wanted a legitimate son, hence his divorce. His playing with Protestantism was thus for that, but Anne herself was keenly Protestant. She had and was even allowed to read books that were on the forbidden index. She most definitely had sympathies for the movement as did her father. She's not going to roll it back, especially when her opposition is Mary. Henry's Protestantism was skin deep, for sure. But Anne's? I find that very hard to believe.

I just think in a situation like this, Fitzroy doesn't stand a chance. If everyone wears themselves out, he'd be able to play up English patriotism and perhaps place himself as a third way between Mary and Anne Boleyn, but no one is going to actively champion for him. Norfolk was pretty attached to the Boleyn camp, IIRC. He's not going to resist possibly being Regent for a baby girl when the other choice is Katherine of Aragon's daughter and Henry's bastard, both old enough to rule.

Fitzroy could play Monmouth, but he's just like him too. Had he lived, Henry was never going to name him his heir. He believed his marriage to Katherine cursed and wanted a new marriage. He was never Protestant, of course, and only broke with Rome formally. But Anne at least had reformist leanings. I just don't see Anne rolling back the reforms. Why would she restore a religion that would essentially proclaim all she had been was Henry's mistress and Elizabeth his bastard? That's not in her character. She was too ambitious for that. Anne, like Mary was very concerned with the meaning and would never ever accept the bastardization of her daughter while she lived, while Mary could never accept that she was illegitimate. Mary's rolled back Henry and Edward's reforms and decreed the divorce void, retroactively making her legitimate again. Elizabeth never challenged any dispute regarding her parents marriage, or attempted to assert her legitimacy; she knew that her religion, the English religion was more than enough.

But a surviving Brandon and Courtenay add to the mix, as does a surviving Margaret Tudor and her offspring. If Henry dies shortly after Elizabeth is born, it also leaves England without a will. Hence the succession is open. It follows male preference primogeniture of course, but it was Henry VIII who opened up the can of worms by decreeing the line of succession and excluding Margaret and her heirs. Here it is clarified, at least a little: Mary or Elizabeth come first, depending on the view of the divorce and marriage in eyes of the Catholics & Reformers; then comes Margaret Tudor and the House of Stewart descended from her. Mary and her offspring. Then from there the House of Tudor is extinct, and it'd follow the remaining extant Plantagenet lines. It does leave an interesting position, as Parliament will have never gained the right to "settle" the succession perse. Henry's marriage with Katherine was annulled of course, and Mary declared a bastard, but nothing like the changes Henry instructed in his Act of Succession.
 
She most definitely had sympathies for the movement as did her father. She's not going to roll it back, especially when her opposition is Mary. Henry's Protestantism was skin deep, for sure. But Anne's? I find that very hard to believe.

I just think in a situation like this, Fitzroy doesn't stand a chance. If everyone wears themselves out, he'd be able to play up English patriotism and perhaps place himself as a third way between Mary and Anne Boleyn, but no one is going to actively champion for him. Norfolk was pretty attached to the Boleyn camp, IIRC. He's not going to resist possibly being Regent for a baby girl when the other choice is Katherine of Aragon's daughter and Henry's bastard, both old enough to rule.

I agree Anne had serious Protestant leanings and would be keen to continue the reforms but if as I suspect Norfolk is the one to take hold (and his experience would be needed to keep Elizabeth on the throne and thwort Mary) then religious policy will be on the back burners at least until Mary is defeated. It is then I think that religion may cause issues in the Nofolk-Boleyn alliance especially if Norfolk feels Anne is over-ruling him or going against him. Baring in mind that Elizabeth is an infant her religious views will be what ever her regency council see fit and if Norfolk can remove Anne's influence then I suspect the reforms will stop but I doubt they would be rolled back and England will remain aloof from the Papacy.

On another note if Henry dies in 1533 Thomas More is still a free man, could his influence and reputation aid Mary if it does resort to civil war. Mary being guided by More is an interesting thought.
 
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