Henry VIII has a twin brother

If Catherine wants to marry and is made to be Regent of Castile she could quite easily marry the Duke of Calabria, couldn’t she? Then, maybe if Charles wants to give her and her descendants a crown in recognition of her service, they could even have her and her husband coronated King and Queen of Naples in recognition of his family history?
 
If you guys want to mix things up, wasn't there a French tradition where the twin who came out last is actually the firstborn because they believe that twin was conceived first or something similar? Do with that what you will.
 
If you guys want to mix things up, wasn't there a French tradition where the twin who came out last is actually the firstborn because they believe that twin was conceived first or something similar? Do with that what you will.
Oh now that is intrtesting
 
Desmirelle, Katherine and her dowry stopped to be attractive some time after her mother’s death, plus the whole dowry was never paid and little remained of it at Henry VII’s death...
The only reason for which Henry married Catherine was who he was in love with her (plus she was there and ready for babymaking)... Eleanor of Austria (aka Henry’s official fiancé) is a better prospect under any point excluding age so if Edward (like his father) do not fear so much the risk of the Stewarts inheriting England he will marry Eleanor.

A Katherine sent back in Spain is one of the two biggest candidate for marrying Manuel after Maria’s death and the most logical one (the other would be the more risking Queen Dowager Germaine)


Well, Maximilian can also have a son by Bianca Maria (who will marry Anne of Bohemia and Hungary)
But with Catherine back in Spain you can have easily a Ferdinand as King of Spain and married soon to Isabella of Portugal (with many kids and a secured succession) with Charles still alive and ruling Flanders and Austria.
I can not see Charles marrying Anne Jagellon so she will likely marry Zapolya after Maximilian’s death (and after Louis’ death I see Hungary to Zapolya and maybe to Polish Jagellons after that and Bohemia to Charles)...

A Spain/Austria split of this kind will strongly influences matches there so Juana’s kids will be married slightly different than OTL...
Charles, HRE, Archduke of Austria and Duke of Burgundy: Mary Tudor the Elder or a French royal princess most likely, Anna Jagellon more unlikely
Eleanor of Austria: Edward VI of England
Isabella of Austria: Christian II of Denmark
Mary of Austria: Louis II of Hungary

Ferdinand VI of Spain: Isabella of Portugal quickly
Catalina of Spain: João III of Portugal

Manuel I of Portugal (as third wife): Catalina of Aragon or Germaine of Foix
Why would Charles to Anne jagellion be unlikely
 
If Catherine wants to marry and is made to be Regent of Castile she could quite easily marry the Duke of Calabria, couldn’t she? Then, maybe if Charles wants to give her and her descendants a crown in recognition of her service, they could even have her and her husband coronated King and Queen of Naples in recognition of his family history?

Viceroy Catherine of Naples? I like that so much.
 
Why would Charles to Anne jagellion be unlikely
OTL he refuted to marry her (like he refuted Isabella more than once before marrying her) and I can not see him more interested here... Karl will most likely make a match in Burgundian’s interest (so England or France)
 
OTL he refuted to marry her (like he refuted Isabella more than once before marrying her) and I can not see him more interested here... Karl will most likely make a match in Burgundian’s interest (so England or France)

Hmm interesting, though what would give him the Empire alone instead of both Spain and the EMpire as otl, even if Catherine is serving as regent?
 
If Catherine wants to marry and is made to be Regent of Castile she could quite easily marry the Duke of Calabria, couldn’t she? Then, maybe if Charles wants to give her and her descendants a crown in recognition of her service, they could even have her and her husband coronated King and Queen of Naples in recognition of his family history?
Well if Ferdinand is willing to separate Naples from the other lands he can very well restore the Duke of Calabria as King of Naples after marrying him to Catherine... Karl will have zero chance to stop that after Ferdinand’s death...
 
Hmm interesting, though what would give him the Empire alone instead of both Spain and the EMpire as otl, even if Catherine is serving as regent?
Well, OTL both Ferdinand and Germaine planned to make Ferdinand jr as King of Spain, here with the support of Manuel and Catherine they are able to get the recognition of Ferdinand jr as heir instead of his brother Karl from the Cortes of Aragon and Castile...
 
Well, OTL both Ferdinand and Germaine planned to make Ferdinand jr as King of Spain, here with the support of Manuel and Catherine they are able to get the recognition of Ferdinand jr as heir instead of his brother Karl from the Cortes of Aragon and Castile...

Ahhh interesting, so Charles remains heir to the Holy Roman Empire, Ferdinand with his daughter's support gives his favourite grandson the chance to reign over Spain. This could also make it easier for Charles and his descendants re the Netherlands.
 
Ahhh interesting, so Charles remains heir to the Holy Roman Empire, Ferdinand with his daughter's support gives his favourite grandson the chance to reign over Spain. This could also make it easier for Charles and his descendants re the Netherlands.
Exactly. The Spanish Ferdinand rule on his birth country and Karl rule over his Burgundy and the Empire...
Relationship between the brothers will not be the best, either will marry off only the sisters he has available in match who are of interest for him...
Milan and Burgundy will never be under Spanish rule and is possible seeing an unification of the HRE under the Habsburgs
 
Exactly. The Spanish Ferdinand rule on his birth country and Karl rule over his Burgundy and the Empire...
Relationship between the brothers will not be the best, either will marry off only the sisters he has available in match who are of interest for him...
Milan and Burgundy will never be under Spanish rule and is possible seeing an unification of the HRE under the Habsburgs
Interesting, was Milan a territory of the imperial Habsburg then and that went to Spain when Carlos became king?

And I imagine Spain will be better off not having to fight so many expensive wars
 
Interesting, was Milan a territory of the imperial Habsburg then and that went to Spain when Carlos became king?

And I imagine Spain will be better off not having to fight so many expensive wars
Milan was never a territory of the Imperial branch of Habsburg, but was an Imperial fief and after the extinction of the Sforzas the then Holy Roman Emperor had the right to assign the Duchy to a new holder (and in OTL Karl V choised his own son Philip. In this ATL the Spanish branch will never held the Imperial title and so, if the Sforzas are again extinc, Karl V will again assign the title to someone who will be most likely a son or son-in-law but a nephew or nephew-in-law also is possible. Still the best thing is marrying Bona Sforza to either Maximilian or Francesco II and keep the dynasty alive)
 
Right, I promised a response and here is my first thought. If Henry has a twin brother, he may well not be brought up quite as spoiled in the first place, which would impact on his personality anyway. Think about it. In his childhood, Henry was brought up very much as the little lord of Eltham Palace. He was the only son in the household, at least barring a few months when Edmund, Duke of Somerset was around, and IIRC, seems to have been Margaret Beaufort's favourite grandchild, as far as she had such a thing. It wouldn't surprise me if EOY wasn't fond of him because he reminded her of her father either. He was probably brought up in quite an indulgent fashion, even if he was made to realise that he would never be more than Arthur's aide-de-camp and Duke of York rather than King. Having a twin brother would probably change that quite a bit. He wouldn't be the only boy in the nursery, for one.

To quote Frances Hodgson Burnett's 'The Secret Garden'

“It’s the best thing that could happen to the sickly pampered thing to have some one to stand up to him that’s as spoiled as himself;” and she laughed into her handkerchief again. “If he’d had a young vixen of a sister to fight with it would have been the saving of him.”

Henry would be in a similar situation, I suspect. Having a brother to tussle with and fight for attention with on a daily basis might actually mean he grew up more even-keeled in the long run.
 
Milan was never a territory of the Imperial branch of Habsburg, but was an Imperial fief and after the extinction of the Sforzas the then Holy Roman Emperor had the right to assign the Duchy to a new holder (and in OTL Karl V choised his own son Philip. In this ATL the Spanish branch will never held the Imperial title and so, if the Sforzas are again extinc, Karl V will again assign the title to someone who will be most likely a son or son-in-law but a nephew or nephew-in-law also is possible. Still the best thing is marrying Bona Sforza to either Maximilian or Francesco II and keep the dynasty alive)

Ahhh I see, and agreed Bona to Maximilian and them having a son would work quite well.

Right, I promised a response and here is my first thought. If Henry has a twin brother, he may well not be brought up quite as spoiled in the first place, which would impact on his personality anyway. Think about it. In his childhood, Henry was brought up very much as the little lord of Eltham Palace. He was the only son in the household, at least barring a few months when Edmund, Duke of Somerset was around, and IIRC, seems to have been Margaret Beaufort's favourite grandchild, as far as she had such a thing. It wouldn't surprise me if EOY wasn't fond of him because he reminded her of her father either. He was probably brought up in quite an indulgent fashion, even if he was made to realise that he would never be more than Arthur's aide-de-camp and Duke of York rather than King. Having a twin brother would probably change that quite a bit. He wouldn't be the only boy in the nursery, for one.

To quote Frances Hodgson Burnett's 'The Secret Garden'



Henry would be in a similar situation, I suspect. Having a brother to tussle with and fight for attention with on a daily basis might actually mean he grew up more even-keeled in the long run.

Interesting so less the pompus arsehole and perhaps a more even keeled man?
 
Ahhh I see, and agreed Bona to Maximilian and them having a son would work quite well.



Interesting so less the pompus arsehole and perhaps a more even keeled man?

I think so, yes. Edmund surviving might have helped, but at eight years younger, he would have been too young to really impact on Henry's character. A twin brother, on the other hand....
 
Top