Henry VIII had Catherine of Aragon killed

Except that it didn't really work like that, and it never did. It's worth noting that IOTL, Henry's treatment of Catherine, while not actively murderous, was poor enough that it likely hastened her death--and Charles did effectively nothing, aside from tut-tut.

The issue isn't what Charles did; it's what Henry thinks him capable of. ETA We know now that Charles did nothing to save his aunt: Henry doesn't have the benefit of that knowledge.

I also think Anne Boleyn would be whispering in Henry's ear at this point urging caution. Anne viewed Princess Mary as far more of a threat than Catherine (because Henry adored Mary): IMO she would try her best to walk Henry back from any thought of murder.
 
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The issue isn't what Charles did; it's what Henry thinks him capable of. ETA We know now that Charles did nothing to save his aunt: Henry doesn't have the benefit of that knowledge.

I also think Anne Boleyn would be whispering in Henry's ear at this point urging caution. Anne viewed Princess Mary as far more of a threat than Catherine (because Henry adored Mary): IMO she would try her best to walk Henry back from any thought of murder.

Of course--those are among the reasons I agree that the murder of Catherine would be exceedingly unlikely.

That stated, I am arguing with Queen Edward's statement that Charles would rise up, invade England and hang Henry.
 
"Will no one rid me of this meddlesome wife?"

Heh. Good thing I checked to see if someone else had had the same idea first. And it worked SO well for that other Henry, right? (Not)

Seriously, it could happen without his will or intent, if someone mistakes his drunken mutterings one night.
 
"Will no one rid me of this meddlesome wife?"

That's the only I can see Henry VIII get away with killing Queen Catherine without Spanish retaliation. A couple of Queen Catherine's ladies in waiting of foreign origin (either French or Scottish will do) overhears him and assassinates her ala Beckett. Since neither Henry VIII or his ministers didn't order the hit per say, they can say that Queen Catherine's assassination was ordered by the French/Auld Alliance when Charles V comes looking for answers. Then once the heat dies downs, King Henry can marry Anne Boleyn. Also should Anne Boleyn fail to produce a male heir, Henry VIII can always "produce" evidence implicating Ms. Boleyn as part of the plot surrounding Queen Catherine's death making her the fall guy ala Lee Harvey Oswald. Centuries later either Oliver Stone, the BBC, or the History Channel will make a documentary/movie dealing with the numerous conspiracy theories concerning Queen Catherine.
 

Teejay

Gone Fishin'
That's the only I can see Henry VIII get away with killing Queen Catherine without Spanish retaliation. A couple of Queen Catherine's ladies in waiting of foreign origin (either French or Scottish will do) overhears him and assassinates her ala Beckett. Since neither Henry VIII or his ministers didn't order the hit per say, they can say that Queen Catherine's assassination was ordered by the French/Auld Alliance when Charles V comes looking for answers. Then once the heat dies downs, King Henry can marry Anne Boleyn. Also should Anne Boleyn fail to produce a male heir, Henry VIII can always "produce" evidence implicating Ms. Boleyn as part of the plot surrounding Queen Catherine's death making her the fall guy ala Lee Harvey Oswald. Centuries later either Oliver Stone, the BBC, or the History Channel will make a documentary/movie dealing with the numerous conspiracy theories concerning Queen Catherine.

That has the making of the great alternative history novel.
 
The issue isn't what Charles did; it's what Henry thinks him capable of. ETA We know now that Charles did nothing to save his aunt: Henry doesn't have the benefit of that knowledge.

I also think Anne Boleyn would be whispering in Henry's ear at this point urging caution. Anne viewed Princess Mary as far more of a threat than Catherine (because Henry adored Mary): IMO she would try her best to walk Henry back from any thought of murder.

I agree. We know that Charles wouldn't have done anything if both Catherine AND Mary were killed but Henry didn't know that and he was constantly trying to woo the Emperor back to his side since he didn't care for France.
 
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I could see the 'Will no one rid me of my meddlesome wife?!' line popping out of his mouth, or something similar enough that a couple of loyalists could twist it into a command and kill her.

But as everyone else has pointed out, Henry VIII's desire to be seen as a 'chivalrous fellow' plus the fear of an Imperial invasion was enough to stay his hand in RL.

But if we had a repeat of the death of St. Thomas Beckett happen to Catherine then things will get very, VERY complicated for Henry 8. :D
 
In fact, I can see Catherine's assassination go down as a combination of ala Beckett and JFK.

  • We have a motive (Henry VIII's desire for a male heir)
  • A ambitious underling and possible later fall guy (Anne Boleyn who as Catherine's lady in waiting, wants to be Queen)
  • A plausible foreign connection (The Auld Alliance)
  • Hired foreign assassins who posing as ladies in waiting, do the actual deed (via Boleyn, who provides them with access to Catherine)
  • A government official who knows about the plot, but will likely look the other way for reasons of his own (Cardinal Wosley)

While Henry VIII won't officially give the order himself, he not going to stop others from doing the deed (To keep his name clean and for plausible deniability when Charles V comes looking for answers). Also Henry VIII by officially keeping himself above the fray, can conveniently provide the cover-up afterwards (ala the Warren Commission). Finally should the heat (domestic and foreign) get too close, he can always pin the blame on Anne Boleyn (via a rigged trial and execution).
 
While Henry VIII won't officially give the order himself, he not going to stop others from doing the deed (To keep his name clean and for plausible deniability when Charles V comes looking for answers).

It's entirely possible and consistent that Henry VIII could have nothing to do with Catherine's murder other than his private grumbling being heard by the wrong ears, and taken advantage of by Wolsey et al to neatly solve several problems at once. It'd only make Henry's outrage and justice upon the assassins (as opposed to the actual plotters) seem all the more genuine. And really, it's just the sort of thing he might say if particularly drunk, and not remember it in the morning.
 
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It's entirely possible and consistent that Henry VIII could have nothing to do with Catherine's murder other than his private grumbling being heard by the wrong ears, and taken advantage of by Wosley et al to neatly solve several problems at once. It'd only make Henry's outrage and justice upon the assassins (as opposed to the actual plotters) seem all the more genuine. And really, it's just the sort of thing he might say if particularly drunk, and not remember it in the morning.

Under those circumstances would he even wind up marrying Anne Boleyn? I mean if she winds up even indirectly connected to Catherine's murder then Henry marrying her would be a very, very bad idea. Everyone would think this proof that he did have something to do with the murder.
 
Under those circumstances would he even wind up marrying Anne Boleyn? I mean if she winds up even indirectly connected to Catherine's murder then Henry marrying her would be a very, very bad idea. Everyone would think this proof that he did have something to do with the murder.

Anne Boleyn's involvement won't be known until years after the fact (if she fails to bear Henry a male heir as OTL). Also Henry himself could be out hunting with his courtiers when the hit on Catherine goes down, thus providing him with both an alibi and witnesses to his whereabouts should people start asking questions.
 
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