Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon

Without Anne's "fall" in 1536, odds are the Boleyn inheritance is going to George Jr, son of George and Jane (the wife who erroneously always been blamed for bringing up incest - there's no proof in the testimony that effect). Or maybe one of their other sons: Thomas, or William. Don't be greedy for Anne; she'll make a man of Percy, and her biggest worry will be to whom to wed her precious son. (Who won't be near as clever as Elizabeth in the OTL.) You are probably right that she'll straighten out the mess Percy's made of things; but going to court won't be 'awkward' once she has the baby. She and Henry will merely be courtly flirts and that will be the party line they both put out.

Her brothers-in-law will mean less to her than Henry VIII (after she learned of the baby). Percy is the one who matters. If they don't follow her (and Percy's) lead, she'll leave them to fend for themselves and won't give them the time day.
Um George Boleyn most likely never had sons especially ones named Thomas and William. The George Boleyn of Elizabeth I court was most likely a distant cousin not from the main line. Also if these are hypothetical children why is one named William? Also just shooting out a couple of what ifs on how to make the Percy's even richer since with her siblings lines gone there would be nothing stoping Anna from sueing her cousins for the wool earls English eastes. Also with wool earls eastes the north wouldn't be laughing at her from being deceased from mercthents. Also didn't the 5th earl of Northumberland provide some means for his younger sons? They might treat her with respect with her being an heiress. Also she probley it's probley going to be easier for her to clear her husband debt with her eastes.

Also no earl of Northumberland as clever as Elizabeth I? That sucks I'm a big Percy fan so I would have enjoyed a dynamic earl of Northumberland. Also wouldn't Anne be bitter at Henry viii for still sleeping with his queen and might say somthing stupid that gets her banished from court? Or the queen wouldn't want the last of Henrys fancies around from before she gave them a son and has her banished. Besides a break from court would really cut down the exspesess and if she wants to get rid of that debt cuts are needed.

Also what heiress is available to Anne son if he was born in 1530. With her on a make her family rich kick she probley wouldn't settle for less.
 
Um, this is alt history. If Anne is not married to Henry VIII, she won't be beheaded nor will her little brother GEORGE lose his head over incest with his sister the Queen. George and Jane Boleyn are going to have George jr & William (George's grandfather's name) and maybe a little Thomas for dad. Anne isn't going to be bitter - not over losing Henry Tudor, he wasn't who she wanted in the first place. Ironically, by Katherine having the 'miracle' baby, Anne's gotten what she wanted in the first place - Henry Percy. She doesn't care that "they" laugh at her for being descended from merchants, she's the Countess of Northumberland - screw'em, they still curtsey to HER. So, little brother Georgie is getting the Boleyn estates. He may need them to retreat to if he continues in his reformist bent.
 
And her son won't be as clever as Elizabeth mostly because he's not trying to "keep his head" in the treacherous waters of the "offspring of H8 pond" - she had to learn to swim fast there or drown; it was survival as much as anything that made her clever. So, let's say he's just not had to hone those survival skills; he can be intelligent (but spoiled, like any favored son).
 
Very interesting points, seeing how Anne handles the whole reformist thing now she's not Queen and is married to someone whose family was traditionally quite Catholic will be very interesting.
 
Basically just a lot of Henry feeling awkward about the situation and Catherine feeling very smug, but also being gracious.

Catherine does not strike me as the gracious type. There's been a lot of spray-painting of her as the innocent victim or the long-suffering wife but Kate was also vindictive (particularly towards the Boleyns or anyone associated with them; Jews, Frenchies, the list goes on) vicious (beheading the Scot's king), arrogant and proud (refusing to respond UNLESS you addressed her by her proper title). Gracious, perhaps in a sort of "told you so" way, but not very
 
Catherine does not strike me as the gracious type. There's been a lot of spray-painting of her as the innocent victim or the long-suffering wife but Kate was also vindictive (particularly towards the Boleyns or anyone associated with them; Jews, Frenchies, the list goes on) vicious (beheading the Scot's king), arrogant and proud (refusing to respond UNLESS you addressed her by her proper title). Gracious, perhaps in a sort of "told you so" way, but not very

When did she behead a Scots King? Are you referring to James IV?
 
Catherine does not strike me as the gracious type. There's been a lot of spray-painting of her as the innocent victim or the long-suffering wife but Kate was also vindictive (particularly towards the Boleyns or anyone associated with them; Jews, Frenchies, the list goes on) vicious (beheading the Scot's king), arrogant and proud (refusing to respond UNLESS you addressed her by her proper title). Gracious, perhaps in a sort of "told you so" way, but not very
Please cite the references for vindictiveness towards the "Boleyns or ..... list goes on". I don't think she liked that her husband was culling her ladies for his 'mistresses'. Arrogant and proud - of course she was, she was the daughter of two monarchs, the anointed queen of England and the equally arrogant and proud husband she married decides to call her his brother's widow and (by inference, a common whore who'd lived with him for over two decades). It was a common trait among royals to be arrogant and proud. Anne Boleyn became so and it's part of what got her decapitated - Henry wasn't going to put up what he took from Katherine from a woman with no relatives to wage war of her behalf.

So, yeah, she would be outwardly gracious. And, in private, you know H8 got "I told you we were legally married, I told you so!" And anyone who heard about him being nagged in that way probably thought he deserved it.
 
Hmm aye, I imagine Henry VIII might well spoil the child, whilst also expecting great things from him?

He's going to be torn between showing the boy off and protecting him (similar to how his father treated him after Arthur's death). I do expect a well-rounded education for him. A lot is also going to depend on the boy himself and his personality and physical build.
 
He's going to be torn between showing the boy off and protecting him (similar to how his father treated him after Arthur's death). I do expect a well-rounded education for him. A lot is also going to depend on the boy himself and his personality and physical build.

Hmm aye. WOuld it be reasonable to expect him to be a tall lad, with somewhat more muscular proportions?
 
Um, this is alt history. If Anne is not married to Henry VIII, she won't be beheaded nor will her little brother GEORGE lose his head over incest with his sister the Queen. George and Jane Boleyn are going to have George jr & William (George's grandfather's name) and maybe a little Thomas for dad. Anne isn't going to be bitter - not over losing Henry Tudor, he wasn't who she wanted in the first place. Ironically, by Katherine having the 'miracle' baby, Anne's gotten what she wanted in the first place - Henry Percy. She doesn't care that "they" laugh at her for being descended from merchants, she's the Countess of Northumberland - screw'em, they still curtsey to HER. So, little brother Georgie is getting the Boleyn estates. He may need them to retreat to if he continues in his reformist bent.
Okay the Boleyn can have there eastes. I just wanted it to make it easier on Anne to improve the Percy finances. So the percy would still be welcomed at court huh? Well that's going to be expensive.
 
Aaahhh, H8 will forgive debts owed the crown as part of his "wedding present" to the couple. Anything to get her to go quietly....and Katherine will support it; she'll be magnanimous and encourage her husband to be generous with the misguided (insert whatever description you believe Katherine feels is appropriate).
 
Aaahhh, H8 will forgive debts owed the crown as part of his "wedding present" to the couple. Anything to get her to go quietly....and Katherine will support it; she'll be magnanimous and encourage her husband to be generous with the misguided (insert whatever description you believe Katherine feels is appropriate).
I think Katherine will be smart enough to understand who Anne was a victim of Henry...
 
Please cite the references for vindictiveness towards the "Boleyns or ..... list goes on". I don't think she liked that her husband was culling her ladies for his 'mistresses'. Arrogant and proud - of course she was, she was the daughter of two monarchs, the anointed queen of England and the equally arrogant and proud husband she married decides to call her his brother's widow and (by inference, a common whore who'd lived with him for over two decades). It was a common trait among royals to be arrogant and proud. Anne Boleyn became so and it's part of what got her decapitated - Henry wasn't going to put up what he took from Katherine from a woman with no relatives to wage war of her behalf.

So, yeah, she would be outwardly gracious. And, in private, you know H8 got "I told you we were legally married, I told you so!" And anyone who heard about him being nagged in that way probably thought he deserved it.

My sources come from the sites Confessions of Ci-Devant as well as the Anne Boleyn Files (which in spite of it's name, gives a much more balanced account of Catherine/Jane Seymour/Kitty Howard/Katherine Parr, than one might expect), and numerous other things I have read up on Henry VIII's various queens. I feel many of them often get simply viewed as, as my cousin once put it, 'the crone, the whore/homewrecker, the maiden, the horse/cow, the minx and the nurse'. As I said before, I'm not defending Anne, but someone once did a poll (or reported on a poll?) which asked which of Henry VIII's wives would you rather have drinks with. Anne Boleyn came in first, Kitty Howard second (pretty, stupid and easy), while CoA ranked lower, and Jane Seymour ranked dead last, with views of her being as between a virtuous innocent and as much a hypocritical whore as what Anne Boleyn was regarded as.
 
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