Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon

Interesting. So what other effects might come from Henry VIII and Catherine having a son as late as 1528?

Basically just a lot of Henry feeling awkward about the situation and Catherine feeling very smug, but also being gracious.
 
Basically just a lot of Henry feeling awkward about the situation and Catherine feeling very smug, but also being gracious.

Aha indeed, and Anne being shunted to the side.

I suppose Prince Henry would be viewed as a special one then by both parents?
 
My take on Anne (with the 1528 birth) is that the woman will feel like she's been made to play the fool; her pride will not let her come back to Henry after Catherine's death in 1530. The pressure will be on Henry to make a continental match rather than an English commoner - and, since he doesn't have the reputation he had (executing Anne, Jane dying in childbirth), it shouldn't be as hard to final a willing fellow monarch - perhaps doing an 'exchange' with his daughter Mary going to the Continent?
 
My take on Anne (with the 1528 birth) is that the woman will feel like she's been made to play the fool; her pride will not let her come back to Henry after Catherine's death in 1530. The pressure will be on Henry to make a continental match rather than an English commoner - and, since he doesn't have the reputation he had (executing Anne, Jane dying in childbirth), it shouldn't be as hard to final a willing fellow monarch - perhaps doing an 'exchange' with his daughter Mary going to the Continent?
Hmm true perhaps he could marry Maria of Portugal then?
 
Anne would most likely demand some form of marriage, but if it seems no persons of high enough status are available it is entirely possible she might return to Henry. Despite how forceful their union began on his side, there was a definite attraction for her that turned to passionate love. If Catherine is dead by, say, March of 1530, and Anne is unattached, it is entirely possible she'd agree to return to Henry. Particularly if no earls or the like of the right age are available (which it seems there wouldn't be). I can see her being less than gracious in this union, but it would definitely be a strong possibility.
 
I think Anne will be viewed as a discarded mistress; the fact that she hadn't (at the point) slept with Henry being secondary to the opinions of others. I don't see Anne being a court player anymore; the case of the perfect woman at the right time (the serendipity that led to her having such power over Henry through their marriage in 1533) is gone, it's over. She's just a might-have, a what-if, if you please. Henry's supremacy over the church has been postponed, if not nullified and half of the attraction with Anne was the plotting with the unfulfilled passion. This is no longer a part of the relationship and she's just a lady-in-waiting who flirted with the king. I don't see her having a chance at being queen in this TL. Her moment, as it were, has passed. Now....she can still be a power player as a secret reformer; that I can definitely see.
 
She might get a marriage out of it, but that would cement everyone's opinion of her as a mistress - so unless it were an Earl or higher, I can see her declining it with a view towards a convent (or at least giving that as her plan at the time...)
 
Perhaps he will tell his wife sooner that he and Anne were precontracted; in this situation, they won't have to deny it....

Once they do it (admit to a precontract), they're kinda stuck with each other.
 
Perhaps he will tell his wife sooner that he and Anne were precontracted; in this situation, they won't have to deny it....

Once they do it (admit to a precontract), they're kinda stuck with each other.

Aha indeed, do you think Henry would sell Anne off to Percy then to avoid her?
 
Henry VIII lost Anne Boleyn when she learned he was still schtuping his wife. She might go after Percy to prove she didn't need Henry to make a good marriage (and that she could do better than her sister Mary); Henry won't have to avoid Anne - she wants nothing to do with the King after the birth of Henry Jr in 1528. She will probably spit fire at Henry VIII whenever she sees him.
 
Hmm interesting a shock marriage to Percy ?
Aha indeed, do you think Henry would sell Anne off to Percy then to avoid her?
Henry VIII lost Anne Boleyn when she learned he was still schtuping his wife. She might go after Percy to prove she didn't need Henry to make a good marriage (and that she could do better than her sister Mary); Henry won't have to avoid Anne - she wants nothing to do with the King after the birth of Henry Jr in 1528. She will probably spit fire at Henry VIII whenever she sees him.
If Percy and Anne end up tougther would he still squander his eastes?
 
Do we really think Anne would LET him squander HER estates? She'll probably get him out of debt, pop out a son (although her pregnancy pattern does indicate she may have been Rh negative, which means only the first pregnancy for her), and he'll live longer with a woman who at least loves his title enough to take care of him.
 
Do we really think Anne would LET him squander HER estates? She'll probably get him out of debt, pop out a son (although her pregnancy pattern does indicate she may have been Rh negative, which means only the first pregnancy for her), and he'll live longer with a woman who at least loves his title enough to take care of him.
True Anne would probley have Northumberland shape up be a man. Since she failed at being the kings mistress I don't think the earl and countess would be welcome at court cutting exspesess significantly. While Anne would want cultured household she probley first want to get rid of the debt the Percy owed to the crown so Henry can't have any hold over her. Hoplfuly her husbands warden of the east March payments are 15th century sized and comes frequently. There's probley going to be no Church of England so no pilgramage of grace so the Percy's aren't going to welcomed back at court unless the earl wins a second flooden field. Without access to court Anne is going to look for a wife for her son Lincolnshire and northward and she has to be an heiress if we're going for the Anne is straighting up the Percy's finances angle. Let's say this son is born in 1530. What would be a good heiress or someone who could be an heiress if a few people died in the north? Or if Church of England does happen and the earl crushes a pilgramage of grace or he wins a second flooden and the Percy's are welcomed back at court what is a good heiress in general for Anne's son?

Also if Anne's brother and sister die heirless after her fathers death she could sue for the wool earls English eastes (the Irish ones are going to be lost to Irish butlers) from her cousins and she wins them all. That would make her an heiress herself and shut up the her brothers in law about how Anne was not worth it. And the Percy's are even richer with addition of the Boleyn and butler eastes. If she and the earl are lucky they might have a not tragic life.
 
Without Anne's "fall" in 1536, odds are the Boleyn inheritance is going to George Jr, son of George and Jane (the wife who erroneously always been blamed for bringing up incest - there's no proof in the testimony that effect). Or maybe one of their other sons: Thomas, or William. Don't be greedy for Anne; she'll make a man of Percy, and her biggest worry will be to whom to wed her precious son. (Who won't be near as clever as Elizabeth in the OTL.) You are probably right that she'll straighten out the mess Percy's made of things; but going to court won't be 'awkward' once she has the baby. She and Henry will merely be courtly flirts and that will be the party line they both put out.

Her brothers-in-law will mean less to her than Henry VIII (after she learned of the baby). Percy is the one who matters. If they don't follow her (and Percy's) lead, she'll leave them to fend for themselves and won't give them the time day.
 
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