Henry VII and Henry VIII dead in 1509

I think that the huge attraction of Margaret becoming Queen of England is that offers the chance to neutralize any threat to England from Scotland. For centuries Scotland had been a thorn in England's side (particularly because of the Scottish alliance with France). With Margaret as Queen of England, and married to the King of Scotland, her son will become King of both countries and France can no longer use Scotland as a tool to harass the English. It also means that all Margaret's children have the potential to make useful foreign marriages as, with Scotland also under its control, an alliance with England becomes an ever more attractive option. I think that James IV would be smart enough to know that having his wife as Queen Regnant of England was a huge advantage for him and he wouldn't try to mess it up by demanding too much power over English affairs. In reality, as Margaret is much younger than him and will be looking to him for guidance, he will be able to exert quite a lot of power from the side.
Would James attend council
Meetings?
 
I think that the huge attraction of Margaret becoming Queen of England is that offers the chance to neutralize any threat to England from Scotland. For centuries Scotland had been a thorn in England's side (particularly because of the Scottish alliance with France). With Margaret as Queen of England, and married to the King of Scotland, her son will become King of both countries and France can no longer use Scotland as a tool to harass the English. It also means that all Margaret's children have the potential to make useful foreign marriages as, with Scotland also under its control, an alliance with England becomes an ever more attractive option. I think that James IV would be smart enough to know that having his wife as Queen Regnant of England was a huge advantage for him and he wouldn't try to mess it up by demanding too much power over English affairs. In reality, as Margaret is much younger than him and will be looking to him for guidance, he will be able to exert quite a lot of power from the side.
Would James attend council
Meetings?

Yes and yes. James will still be King Consort and will have a lot of power... He will be part of the council and likely will rule in name of Margaret as he was older, an expert ruler and much more affidable than a young inexpert woman and will also be the regent if Margaret will die, maybe in childbirth, before their eldest son will be old enough for ruling...
He is in the exact position of Ferdinand of Aragon in Castile but with more power... James will limited in who he can name in the council and how much he can use England for Scottish’s interest ...
 
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I don't know. I think Margaret would probably want him to - at least until she started feeling confident in her own abilities and more comfortable with her new position.
 
I don't know. I think Margaret would probably want him to - at least until she started feeling confident in her own abilities and more comfortable with her new position.
Agreed and given her life span otl she’s got time. Hell she and James could rule together till 1541
 
Agreed and given her life span otl she’s got time. Hell she and James could rule together till 1541

His lifespan is a bit hard to guess at - James I, II, III were all murdered and his mother, grandmother and great grandmother died quite young - James is approaching 40 (1513) which for a Stewart was already a good innings - If we're generous he might make 50 - but I would be surprised if he lasted past 1530 - either way his son is going to inherit the Scots throne at a relatively young age and that might have a significant impact on who he marries and his relationship with his mother (who lets assume lasts as in OTL to 1541).

Key figures in Scotland will change - Alexander Stewart (James illegitimate son was Archbishop of St Andrews) he won't die at Flodden in this scenario and might well grow to be a very important figure in Scotland (he'd studied under Erasmus) and was appointed Lord Chancellor in 1510 - suspect he will be a major figure during James IV's continuing reign.

I suspect given Margaret's character there might well be significant tensions between her and James - in the short term she might be very willing to listen to James and effectively be his mouthpiece in dealing with her ministers and Parliament - however in time she might wish to exert more influence of her own especially if her and James are facing long separations while he is travelling to and from Scotland.
 
His lifespan is a bit hard to guess at - James I, II, III were all murdered and his mother, grandmother and great grandmother died quite young - James is approaching 40 (1513) which for a Stewart was already a good innings - If we're generous he might make 50 - but I would be surprised if he lasted past 1530 - either way his son is going to inherit the Scots throne at a relatively young age and that might have a significant impact on who he marries and his relationship with his mother (who lets assume lasts as in OTL to 1541).

Key figures in Scotland will change - Alexander Stewart (James illegitimate son was Archbishop of St Andrews) he won't die at Flodden in this scenario and might well grow to be a very important figure in Scotland (he'd studied under Erasmus) and was appointed Lord Chancellor in 1510 - suspect he will be a major figure during James IV's continuing reign.

I suspect given Margaret's character there might well be significant tensions between her and James - in the short term she might be very willing to listen to James and effectively be his mouthpiece in dealing with her ministers and Parliament - however in time she might wish to exert more influence of her own especially if her and James are facing long separations while he is travelling to and from Scotland.

I agree. I don't think James IV would last until 1541 though hopefully he would last until his eldest son was an adult or close to reaching adulthood.

As Margaret does appear to have loved her children, I suspect her relationship with her son would be a close one - though might become strained as James V reaches adulthood. Even if has already inherited the throne of Scotland, England is the bigger prize and he might grow resentful of having to wait. A French marriage for him might well still happen - though hopefully with someone a little more healthy than Madeleine de Valois!

And I agree that as time passed, Margaret might start to resent her husband trying to exert too much control in England. After all, she is the one who grew up in England and thus knows the country and its people better than he does. As the years pass, James IV might start spending increasing amounts of time in Scotland where is he is still the reigning monarch and the one with all the power.
 
I agree. I don't think James IV would last until 1541 though hopefully he would last until his eldest son was an adult or close to reaching adulthood.

As Margaret does appear to have loved her children, I suspect her relationship with her son would be a close one - though might become strained as James V reaches adulthood. Even if has already inherited the throne of Scotland, England is the bigger prize and he might grow resentful of having to wait. A French marriage for him might well still happen - though hopefully with someone a little more healthy than Madeleine de Valois!

And I agree that as time passed, Margaret might start to resent her husband trying to exert too much control in England. After all, she is the one who grew up in England and thus knows the country and its people better than he does. As the years pass, James IV might start spending increasing amounts of time in Scotland where is he is still the reigning monarch and the one with all the power.

Yes assuming a death in the mid 20s for James - he's going to succeeded by his teenage son who could easily fall under the influence of Scots nobles once he's north of the border - also he might face difficulties on his accession - he's likely to have spent most of his life in England and will be resented by some - i can also see a teenager becoming increasingly resentful of helpful advice from his mother down south lol.

He'll probably face similar issues when he eventually succeeds his mother in 1541.
 
Yes assuming a death in the mid 20s for James - he's going to succeeded by his teenage son who could easily fall under the influence of Scots nobles once he's north of the border - also he might face difficulties on his accession - he's likely to have spent most of his life in England and will be resented by some - i can also see a teenager becoming increasingly resentful of helpful advice from his mother down south lol.

He'll probably face similar issues when he eventually succeeds his mother in 1541.
I’m imagining war between mother and son now aha
 
I agree. I don't think James IV would last until 1541 though hopefully he would last until his eldest son was an adult or close to reaching adulthood.

As Margaret does appear to have loved her children, I suspect her relationship with her son would be a close one - though might become strained as James V reaches adulthood. Even if has already inherited the throne of Scotland, England is the bigger prize and he might grow resentful of having to wait. A French marriage for him might well still happen - though hopefully with someone a little more healthy than Madeleine de Valois!

And I agree that as time passed, Margaret might start to resent her husband trying to exert too much control in England. After all, she is the one who grew up in England and thus knows the country and its people better than he does. As the years pass, James IV might start spending increasing amounts of time in Scotland where is he is still the reigning monarch and the one with all the power.

I think who Catherine of Austria is still the most logical choice as bride, unless he is willing to wait for a daughter of Charles or Eleanor (we can have Eleanor married to John in 1516 and the wedding of Charles and Isabella in 1517 or 1518 and so they can have available daughters born before 1520) or a daughter of Manuel of Portugal and Mary Tudor (if they had married in 1514 they can have a daughter born in 1516 )
 
Catherine of Austria might be the most logical option but the Prince of Wales/Duke of Rothesay's marriage probably depends a lot on who has the most influence during the betrothal/marriage negotiations. James will favor a French match because the Stewarts and Scotland have a historical relationship with France. While Margaret and England will favor a not-French match and perhaps a relationship with Spain and the Emperor over France.
 
Catherine of Austria might be the most logical option but the Prince of Wales/Duke of Rothesay's marriage probably depends a lot on who has the most influence during the betrothal/marriage negotiations. James will favor a French match because the Stewarts and Scotland have a historical relationship with France. While Margaret and England will favor a not-French match and perhaps a relationship with Spain and the Emperor over France.

And given that James might feel tired of the French using the Scots, he might see the reasoning behind the suggestion.
 
James IV of Scotland and I of England will be crowned alongside his wife. He ain't gonna be no "Consort" and it would be insulting to him personally for anyone to have the balls to suggest it. This is NOT the Aragon/Castille situation where it was known the pair would be inheriting and the marital contract (actually, I think they wrangled about it even after the marriage, but it started before); this is not the situation where a reigning single woman (Queen Mary of England) negotiates a marital contract (pre-nup in our parlance) to avoid her husband having control over England. This is an unforeseen situation where a woman NEVER expected to rule has inherited the throne unexpectedly and she's already wed to a King. Margaret had no training for the position of Queen Regnant, she's going to have James crowned right alongside her for a number of reasons: she NEEDS him to help her rule unless she's going to hand power over to a council; he can keep the child (I think Arthur is the only one she has at this point); it's no stain on him to take another mistress with Margaret in England, but that current only runs one way in the 16th century) if he isn't crowned (and unlike women, men are not 'crowned matrimonially' - ask Prince Philip). Margaret will then be in the position her OTL niece Mary was in: no heir (presuming son Arthur dies on schedule in 1510) and no way to get one (if he's in Scotland and she's in England...…). James IV can name anyone he wants to succeed him (Lord knows he's got enough bastards to chose from, not to mention cousins); but she's got only a younger sister, also not trained in ruling.

James died in battle, he's not above a fight over this issue. While Margaret's father didn't die, he was willing to over the same issue: the Kingship of England.

I'm not sure Margaret Beaufort's health will allow her to make any real decisions; H7's death broke her. Having first H7, then H8 die and the next heir wed to the Scottish King, she may well recommend uniting the countries - that was the point of wedding her granddaughter to the man in the first place. (It was just expected to happen in a later generation.)
 
One other thing: I think James and Margaret might proceed with the marriage of Princess Mary to Charles simply to 'balance' their alliances (and it's a good way for James to prove he's not France's puppet). In 1509, she is of age to wed. After the court mourning, a marriage to cheer everyone up might be welcomed. (It also avoids a pro-Mary party forming among the nobles.)
 
One other thing: I think James and Margaret might proceed with the marriage of Princess Mary to Charles simply to 'balance' their alliances (and it's a good way for James to prove he's not France's puppet). In 1509, she is of age to wed. After the court mourning, a marriage to cheer everyone up might be welcomed. (It also avoids a pro-Mary party forming among the nobles.)

That puts the heir to the Spanish Empire only a heartbeat or two away from England's crown. Would they really riskthat?

Maybe simpler to marry her to one of James' Scottish cousins, so that any Englishmen who dislike a Scottish king are faced with Hobson's choice.
 
He ain't gonna be no "Consort" and it would be insulting to him personally for anyone to have the balls to suggest it.
That's not much of an argument. The nobles of England don't really care if his feelings get hurt.
this is not the situation where a reigning single woman (Queen Mary of England) negotiates a marital contract (pre-nup in our parlance) to avoid her husband having control over England. This is an unforeseen situation where a woman NEVER expected to rule has inherited the throne unexpectedly and she's already wed to a King. Margaret had no training for the position of Queen Regnant, she's going to have James crowned right alongside her for a number of reasons
This is a much better argument.
When it comes down to it James will have to argue his case with the nobles who already have Mary secured in country.
James has little right himself to the Crown, his rights come via Margaret, so the English nobles will do all they can to ensure only Margaret's heirs inherit. There's no way James will rule automatically in 16th century England.

One other thing: I think James and Margaret might proceed with the marriage of Princess Mary to Charles simply to 'balance' their alliances (and it's a good way for James to prove he's not France's puppet). In 1509, she is of age to wed. After the court mourning, a marriage to cheer everyone up might be welcomed. (It also avoids a pro-Mary party forming among the nobles.)

That puts the heir to the Spanish Empire only a heartbeat or two away from England's crown. Would they really risk that?

Maybe simpler to marry her to one of James' Scottish cousins, so that any Englishmen who dislike a Scottish king are faced with Hobson's choice.

What it boils down to is that the English want the least foreign, least French, least female, with the most right by blood, in charge. Since the nobles have Mary under control if James is too much of a jerk about improper titles being a personal insult they could probably find a way to disbar Margaret. It might not be clean but it's possible.
 
That's not much of an argument. The nobles of England don't really care if his feelings get hurt.

This is a much better argument.
When it comes down to it James will have to argue his case with the nobles who already have Mary secured in country.
James has little right himself to the Crown, his rights come via Margaret, so the English nobles will do all they can to ensure only Margaret's heirs inherit. There's no way James will rule automatically in 16th century England.





What it boils down to is that the English want the least foreign, least French, least female, with the most right by blood, in charge. Since the nobles have Mary under control if James is too much of a jerk about improper titles being a personal insult they could probably find a way to disbar Margaret. It might not be clean but it's possible.

Which could likely lead to outright war
 
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