Henry VI dies in 1447

Would Margaret remarry or remain single, and perhaps head back to France?

If she has a kid she's kinda intrinsically tied to England, no? And she mightn't want to abandon said kid.

With regards to returning her to France there might be diplomatic shenanigans in the way.

Assuming a son...

Who does she want to marry? It can't be too low- that's demeaning to the king. It can't be too high- the other lords won't want one of their number elevated to the position of the king's step-father and might push forward a rule/bill similar to the one with Catherine de Valois (whoever she remarries forfeits all land and titles).

They might be slightly less strict if it's ''only'' a daughter.
 
That is true.

Hmm, so someone such as Beaufort, would be out then? An earl? Or would that be seen as too low for Margaret?

If she has a son, I take it the names are either Henry or Edward, and if its a girl, then Margaret or Catherine?
 
That is true.

Hmm, so someone such as Beaufort, would be out then? An earl? Or would that be seen as too low for Margaret?

If she has a son, I take it the names are either Henry or Edward, and if its a girl, then Margaret or Catherine?

Beaufort's married as of 1436. I'm not sure if there's any earls floating about who Margaret would fancy. Humphrey Stafford (b. 1425- his wife IOTL was Margaret Beaufort, not that Margaret Beaufort, but she's only 10 in 1447), eldest son of the Duke of Buckingham, is the only one that springs to mind, but I'm not sure he had anything to do with Marg IOTL and he doesn't seem to have been all that noteworthy.

Plus, Marg doesn't seem like the type who would screw herself over by making a foolish marriage does she? Though she is only a teenager here, so...

I'd say Henry for a boy- they've got a three-peat going, why break it?
 
Beaufort's married as of 1436. I'm not sure if there's any earls floating about who Margaret would fancy. Humphrey Stafford (b. 1425- his wife IOTL was Margaret Beaufort, not that Margaret Beaufort, but she's only 10 in 1447), eldest son of the Duke of Buckingham, is the only one that springs to mind, but I'm not sure he had anything to do with Marg IOTL and he doesn't seem to have been all that noteworthy.

Plus, Marg doesn't seem like the type who would screw herself over by making a foolish marriage does she? Though she is only a teenager here, so...

I'd say Henry for a boy- they've got a three-peat going, why break it?

Aha very true. Hmm, Margaret's resolve hardened after her husband's break down in around 1453 I suppose, as that was when she started seeing York as a threat if I remember. 1147 she's still a young lady, perhaps she'd be married off to someone of benefit to the regency?

And alright, we'd have Henry VII, no doubt, York if he controls the regency will want one of his daughters tied to the young King.
 
That is true and not something I'd thought of before. Wasn't James II already married at this point tho? Or did his marriage to Mary of guelders only come later?

Negotiations for the match with Mary of Guelders only began in mid 1447.
 
Also, if Margaret of Anjou has a son after her husband's death, so around early 1448, then she probably is either going to remain unmarried or marry within her faction. Hell, since I cannot find much on William de la Pole's family, it is entirely possibly he's unmarried still at this point (or left a widower) and thus might marry her himself. If not him, then I can see her possibly marrying an ennobled John Neville, brother to the infamous OTL Kingmaker. This would, obviously, only really occur if said John Neville was ennobled, if it's a planned marriage, but I can see it happening.
 
Alright fascinating William de la pole had a son by this point if I remember correctly as his son john was of an age with Margaret Beaufort. But a marriage to de la pole if his wife is dead wouldn't be out of character.

So which scenario is more interesting to you all?
 
Alright fascinating William de la pole had a son by this point if I remember correctly as his son john was of an age with Margaret Beaufort. But a marriage to de la pole if his wife is dead wouldn't be out of character.

So which scenario is more interesting to you all?

Well, the thing is, his son is only 5 years old to Margaret's 17/18, so it's more likely she's marry the father than the son. In saying that, if she was to marry the son later, even as a 3rd husband, then that could work. But, for a de la Pole match to work in ITL, it's probably going to be William.
 
Suffolk's wife Alice Chaucer (granddaughter of Geoffrey) lived until 1475 IOTL.

So there is no possibility, unless he reputes his wife. Well, 12 years may be a lot, but if she married John de la Pole when he's 14, she'll only be 26, so there'd be time for kids. But John Neville or James II of Scotland are seeming more and more likely tbh.
 
So, in regards to this, would we see Henry VII being married to one of York's daughters or would he be pushed for a foreign marriage?
 
So, in regards to this, would we see Henry VII being married to one of York's daughters or would he be pushed for a foreign marriage?

Depends on how stable York thinks the Regency is. If he's in control, and Margaret's gone off remarried somewhere out of England, and he's raising the King, I can see him aiming for a foreign match. Some matches that may occur, in order of likelihood:

Eleanor of Naples: A solid foreign match that would provide a decent, dependable alliance. Not the greatest royal match, but considering Henry VII's mother is the second daughter of a Duke, the eldest daughter of a King is a step up.

Maria or Bona of Savoy: A match with Bona was in the works of Edward IV of England OTL, so I can see a match with Savoy being suggested ITL for Henry VII of England, particularly with similar people around him. Hell, I would even suggest a double match might occur, with Henry marrying one of the Savoy girls, and Anne or Margaret of York to Amadeus IX, Duke of Savoy.

Margaret of York: The youngest daughter of the Regent, he may, if a foreign match seems unlikely or without gain for himself, aim to have his daughter who is nearest in age to the King marry him.

Magdalena of France: This might occur if Richard of York, as Regent of England, makes some considerable gains in France, and demands a French Princess for the King. If this occurs, then the match would probably be done to celebrate the success of the French campaign.
 
Alright fascinating. This leads me to my next question, under a York regency, would the French campaign get some revival, or was it always doomed to failure? At this point, what is the most realistic expectation for England to retain in France?
 
Alright fascinating. This leads me to my next question, under a York regency, would the French campaign get some revival, or was it always doomed to failure? At this point, what is the most realistic expectation for England to retain in France?

He might want to go on a French campaign, in the name of honour and to prove he's so much better than Somerset, But assuming he's caught up in politicking and power-struggles for a few years whilst France takes what is left of English possessions on the continent and then solidifies their position it might be difficult for York to make any headway in France.

He'd also know that a failed French campaign will result in him losing face/prestige/political capital/whatever at home, and hence weaken his position there, and that attempting to raise the taxes necessary to pursue a French war will likely be unpopular.
 
He might want to go on a French campaign, in the name of honour and to prove he's so much better than Somerset, But assuming he's caught up in politicking and power-struggles for a few years whilst France takes what is left of English possessions on the continent and then solidifies their position it might be difficult for York to make any headway in France.

He'd also know that a failed French campaign will result in him losing face/prestige/political capital/whatever at home, and hence weaken his position there, and that attempting to raise the taxes necessary to pursue a French war will likely be unpopular.

Very true. Ah the changing minds of man eh. Court factions would likely be Suffolk and Beaufort against York and Salisbury I imagine?
 
Very true. Ah the changing minds of man eh. Court factions would likely be Suffolk and Beaufort against York and Salisbury I imagine?

It's worth noting that Salisbury didn't align himself with York until well into the 1450s IOTL, and this TL has radically different circumstances.

Much depends on whether Anne de Beauchamp, 15th Countess of Warwick still dies young. If she does, then Salisbury might buddy up with York to ensure his son gets the Earldom of Warwick and fend off the rival claims of Shrewsbury and Somerset. How things are going in his feud with the Percies might also influence Salisbury.

On the flip side, there'd been clashes between the Suffolk-aligned William Bonville and the Somerset-aligned(ish) Earl of Devon, but they can probably paper over such things if they see York as the greater threat. Though I wouldn't put it beyond Somerset to throw Suffolk to the wolves over the French treaty if he thinks it beneficial.

The violent Duke of Exeter is something of a wildcard in all this.
 
It's worth noting that Salisbury didn't align himself with York until well into the 1450s IOTL, and this TL has radically different circumstances.

Much depends on whether Anne de Beauchamp, 15th Countess of Warwick still dies young. If she does, then Salisbury might buddy up with York to ensure his son gets the Earldom of Warwick and fend off the rival claims of Shrewsbury and Somerset. How things are going in his feud with the Percies might also influence Salisbury.

On the flip side, there'd been clashes between the Suffolk-aligned William Bonville and the Somerset-aligned(ish) Earl of Devon, but they can probably paper over such things if they see York as the greater threat. Though I wouldn't put it beyond Somerset to throw Suffolk to the wolves over the French treaty if he thinks it beneficial.

The violent Duke of Exeter is something of a wildcard in all this.

From what I've read Anne was quite ill before her death, so I imagine she'd likely still die young, unless butterlfies ensure her health improves rapidly. It is interesting that Salisbury only buddied up to York in the 1450s, one would've thought their shared familial connection through York's wife Cecily would've seen them ally sooner.

Devon and Bonville creating havoc for their respective allies would be interesting, especially if Somerset and Suffolk are trying to work together against York.
 
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