Henry V and Henry VI of England

[JedidiahStott]

A landless title, even a ducal one, is no good powerbase.

The King can indeed create Dukes. But, not so easily, grant them lands he doesn't have.

Marriage to an heiress brings the land to fund the title. And that is a powerbase.

 

[Falastur]

A landless title, even a ducal one, is no good powerbase.

The King can indeed create Dukes. But, not so easily, grant them lands he doesn't have.

Marriage to an heiress brings the land to fund the title. And that is a powerbase.

They weren't exactly landless titles. IIRC, the Duke of Bedford used his revenues as Duke to fund his campaigns in France at one point, before gifting himself Maine right after he captured it and using that instead.

 

[JedidiahStott]

They weren't exactly landless titles. IIRC, the Duke of Bedford used his revenues as Duke to fund his campaigns in France at one point, before gifting himself Maine right after he captured it and using that instead.

Yes, but by this era, once the title escheats back to the King, he can strip the lands out of it and retain them . So the fact that John Duke of Bedford was a great magnate doesn't mean that a future Duke of Bedford will get those lands.

Social convention dictated that the King should not award an empty title, it was considered dihonourable for a peer to be too poor to maintain the dignity of his title,. But, on the other hand, a noble,e specially a Duke was expected to live a grand life style. It would be easy (and happened quite often) for the King to grant a title to someone who ended up being impoverished by it.

Of course, if the King really liked you he could grant you a title and vast acres to go with it. But there was a lot of competition for those grants, not least from the King himself. He had expenses of his own,and needed landholding himself. Hence, rich heiresses were very attractive . Even ugly ones.

 

[Mikestone8]

Yes, but by this era, once the title escheats back to the King, he can strip the lands out of it and retain them . So the fact that John Duke of Bedford was a great magnate doesn't mean that a future Duke of Bedford will get those lands.

Social convention dictated that the King should not award an empty title, it was considered dihonourable for a peer to be too poor to maintain the dignity of his title,. But, on the other hand, a noble,e specially a Duke was expected to live a grand life style. It would be easy (and happened quite often) for the King to grant a title to someone who ended up being impoverished by it.

Of course, if the King really liked you he could grant you a title and vast acres to go with it. But there was a lot of competition for those grants, not least from the King himself. He had expenses of his own,and needed landholding himself. Hence, rich heiresses were very attractive . Even ugly ones.

This was what caused all the upset when Edward IV married Elizabeth Woodville. She used her position to secure her relatives heiresses and royal wards whom their relatively low rank would given them no chance of marrying had a member of their family not become Queen. It really set a cat among the pigeons.