Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Cate13, Nov 4, 2018.

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  1. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Nov 16, 2018
    Yikes! There's a dramatic chapter!

    Remind me who Princess Kathryn is again?? Please! I get lost without family trees...
     
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  2. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    Sure :) She's the granddaughter of Arthur Tudor and Catherine of Aragon through their eldest daughter Margaret who died and the granddaughter of Henry Tudor and Catherine of Navarre through their second son Francis, who just died. I'll be posting a 1540 Tudor family tree soon, but the 1530 Tudor tree is still pretty helpful. It's on page 3.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  3. The Professor Pontifex Collegii Vexillographiariorum

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    Does Tudor hair = red hair in general, or a shade of red hair like Auburn and Titian?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  4. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Isabella of Poland (sort of as a way of strengthening the Valois claim to Milan); Christine of Denmark was considered for much the same reason. OTL Mary Tudor was considered for Henri II as well.
     
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  5. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Actually, AIUI, Brittany was by that point inseparable from the crown of France. So while François III was given the title of 'duc de Bretagne' he was that in name only, AFAIK everything else was pulled in tandem between Nantes and Paris
     
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  6. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    Stop making my Catherine into a tragic figure!
     
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  7. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Just red hair in general. Since this is genetics, not a painters preferred shade, the Tudors will have several different shades of red.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  8. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    So, as near as I can figure, and I could totally wrong, while the Duchess of Brittany had been Queen of France for two generations, the actual official union with France didn't happen until 1532 OTL through a vote of the Estates of Brittany. In this timeline it was delayed a bit.

    Also, forgive my ignorance, what does AFAIK mean?
     
  9. The_Last_Plantagenet Well-Known Member

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    As Far As I Know :)
     
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  10. Threadmarks: Tudor Family - 1540

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    I have cut a few of the stillborns or children who died young for this tree. That's why a few of the children-numbers skip numbers.

    Henry VII Tudor, (1457-1521) King of England m. Elizabeth of York, (1466-1531), Queen of England


    Arthur I Tudor, (1486-1540) King of England m. Infanta Catalina Trastamara of Aragon (1485- )
    3) Margaret Tudor, (1506-1523) Princess of Wales m. Francis Tudor, (1507-1540), Prince of Wales, then Duke of Calais
    1) Katheryn I Tudor, (1523-), Queen of England ​
    6) Mary Tudor, (1514- ) Queen of England m. Ferdinand I, (1503- ) Holy Roman Emperor
    1) Elisabeth Habsburg, (1531- )
    2) Magdalena Habsburg, (1533- )
    3) Charles II Habsburg, (1537- )
    4) Catherine Habsburg, (1540- )​
    8) John Tudor, (1524-1540), Prince of Wales​


    Margaret Tudor, (1489- ) m. a) James IV Stewart, (1473-1520), King of Scotland; b) James Hamilton, (1475- ), 1st Earl of Arran
    3a) James V Stewart, (1512- ), King of Scotland m. Louise Valois, (1515- ), Princes of France
    1) Mary Stewart, (1534-1540), Princess of Scotland
    2) Margaret Stewart, (1536- ), Princess of Scotland
    3) James VI Stewart, (1539- ), Heir to the Throne of Scotland
    4) Charles Stewart, (1540- ), Duke of Rothesay ​
    4a) Alexander Stewart, (1514-1560), Duke of Rothesay m. Katheryn I Tudor, (1523- ), Queen of England
    5b) Elizabeth Hamilton, (1529- )​


    Henry II Tudor, (1491- ), Duke of York and Richmond m. a) Catherine of Navarre (1483-1517), Queen of Navarre; b) Anne Boleyn, (1501-1530); c) Sybylle Von der Mark, (1517-1539), Princess of Cleves
    1a) Henry III Tudor, (1504- ), King of Navarre m. Johanna Sophia/Jeanne Sophie Wettin, (1503- ), Princess of Saxony*
    1) Jeanne Tudor, (1521- ), Princess of Navarre
    2) Henry IV Tudor, (1522- ), Heir to the Throne of Navarre
    3) Anne Sophie Tudor, (1525- ), Princess of Navarre
    4) Francis Tudor, (1534- ) Prince of Navarre ​
    2a) Francis Tudor, (1507-1540), Duke of Calais m. Margaret Tudor, (1506-1523) Princess of Wales
    See Margaret Tudor ​
    3a) Charles Tudor, (1511- ), Duke of Calais m. Leonora Borgia (1513-)**
    1) Charlotte Tudor, (1531- )​
    4b) Elizabeth Tudor, (1522- )
    5b) Anne Tudor, (1524-1531)
    6b) Eleanor Tudor, (1527- )
    7c) Arthur Tudor, (1534-1538)
    8c) John Tudor, (1539- ), Duke of Julich-Cleves-Berg​


    Mary Tudor, (1496- ) m. John III Aviz, (1502-), King of Portugal
    2) Maria Aviz, (1519- ), Infanta of Portugal m. Prince Francis Valois (1518-1536), Duke of Brittany
    1) Marie Francoise Valois, (1537- ) Duchess of Brittany ​
    3) John Emmanuel I Aviz, (1521- ), Heir to the thrown of Portugal
    5) Isabel Aviz, (1528- ), Infanta of Portugal
    6) Maria Aviz, (1531- ), Infanta of Portugal​


    *OTL Johann Frederick I, Elector of Saxony

    **daughter of Cesare Borgia and Charlotte d’Albret, since Cesare Borgia didn’t die in 1507.
     
  11. The Professor Pontifex Collegii Vexillographiariorum

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    Oh the irony of Anne Boleyn being said to have Tudor hair TTL!
     
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  12. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Nov 16, 2018
    Thanks for this. And oh, both Arthur's grandaughter and second daughter Queens of England? That's gone well... But then Cromwell's letter wasn't exactly reassuring...
     
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  13. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    So, both Arthur's granddaughter and second daughter are claiming to be Queens of England. Who actually gets the job is still up in the air.
     
  14. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Ha! That's going to be fun, isn't it?
     
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  15. Threadmarks: Section Twenty - 1540

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    “The death of King Arthur I and John of Wales shook the nation. King Arthur I was one of the most loved English monarchs, and Prince John was especially revered in Wales. But, more than the loss of two beloved public figures, the nation worried at the uncertainty surrounding the succession. For, while Kathryn Tudor was the eldest daughter of the eldest daughter of King Arthur I, rumors abounded that John of Wales had lived several hours longer than his father and had left a will, a will that by-passed Kathryn Tudor.”
    Everett Jacobs, “Catherine and Kathryn” ​


    “With the official news of King Arthur and John Tudor’s death reached London, Queen Catherine swiftly took control. Kathryn Tudor had already been confined to quarters the day before, so no attention was paid to the young princess. This was to be Queen Catherine’s only mistake.”
    Walter Owens, “The Tragedy of Catherine of Aragon” ​


    “It has been a day since we learned of the death of the King and Prince of Wales. Queen Catherin has been named Regent, though by who and regent for who, I am unsure. Nothing has been seen of the Princess [Kathryn] for two days now. Many people have begun to worry for her safety.”
    Journal of a courtier ​


    “It would not be till the evening of the second day of Queen Catherine’s regency, that she visited Kathryn Tudor’s quarters. There it was found that Princess Kathryn, Lady Elizabeth, and several other of her ladies were all gone.

    An investigation ascertained that it had been Sir Thomas Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell, Earl of Essex who had arranged for the escape of Kathryn Tudor. Orders were given to detain the two, but neither could be found. It was believed that Kathryn Tudor and her companions were heading to the coast to take a ship to Navarre.”
    Vanessa Corey, “Glorianna” ​
     
  16. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Nov 16, 2018
    Oh wow! Henry's going to come charging back to England to defend Kathryn's rights, isn't he? He always did fancy himself a knight in shining armour...
     
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  17. The Merovingian To whom the Capets aspire.

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    Calling it now Kathryn is gonna marry uncle Henry.
     
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  18. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Nov 16, 2018
    Now that you mention it...
     
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  19. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    Not sure which Henry you meant, but neither are an option. Prince Henry, OTL Henry VIII, is both Kathryn's great uncle and her grandfather, so he's out. King Henri III of Navarre is Prince Henry's eldest son and is Kathryn's uncle, also first cousin once removed. He's married and so isn't up an option. Kathryn's other Tudor uncles, are Charles who is married and John who is one years old.
     
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  20. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Nov 16, 2018
    Oops. Quite. But I still think Henry is going to be her knight in shining armour...
     
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