Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Cate13, Nov 4, 2018.

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  1. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    Ah, yes. Sorry for dropping that on you since I will not be explaining that for a while. Unless you are dying to know, in that case you can message me, and I will gladly spill the beans.

    Thanks for the comments :D
     
  2. Threadmarks: Section Seventy-Five - 1573

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    “One of the largest consequences of Prince Henry’s last trip would be the spread of the Awakened Church. While there were three organized Awakened churches, the Awakened Church of Navarre, the Awakened Church of Denmark, and the newly formed Awakened Church of England, [1] there had not been much growth in the last few years. But, where Prince Henry went so did converts.

    Though the Awakened Church of the German State would not be formally organized for several decades, it’s birth can be traced back to Prince Henry’s visit to Hesse-Kassel and Julich-Cleves-Berg.”
    Lise Marie Peters, “The Awakening of Europe”​

    [1] Unlike the Awakened Church of Navarre and the Awakened Church of Denmark, the Awakened Church of England was not the national religion of its country.


    “A lot of people have asked about the title of this book. They think it’s too laidback for a history text book. But, who said history has to be uptight? History is fascinating! Full of love affairs and religious riots, family drama and feuds, war and death. Most textbooks managed to turn this fascinating tapestry to a dull boring timeline.

    People also think that recounting European history through the lens of the Tudors is partisan or biased. Is it? Maybe. But it sure is interesting. Prince Henry fathered two Kings, a Queen; grandfathered another handful of monarchs; started a religion; personally feuded with a pope (some of their letters literally boiled down to ‘no you’); held a Italian Duke hostage for almost two decades; married six of the fifteen hundreds most influential women and was apparently madly in love with five of them (sorry Catherine of Navarre); and kept the shenanigans going all the way into his eighties. And that’s just one Tudor. The rest of them were almost as outrageous.

    This is The 1500’s Was A Crazy Century, and It Was Mostly the Tudors’ Fault. The fifteen hundreds really were crazy, and it was mostly the Tudors’ fault.”
    Matheo Henrikson, introduction to “The 1500’s Was A Crazy Century, and It Was Mostly the Tudors’ Fault,” textbook for History 235 at CLU.​


    “The mid 1570s saw Prince Henry finally begin to slow down; he had finally begun to feel his age. Knowing his days were numbered, Prince Henry set out to visit his living children one more time. For Eleanor Tudor, he wouldn’t make it in time.”
    Irene Whent, “Prince Henry’s Last Trip”​
     
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  3. JuliantheUnknown Unknown Member

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    Jun 11, 2016
    I have the bad feeling this means Eleanor is on her way out instead of Henry.
     
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  4. Threadmarks: Section Seventy-Six - 1573

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    “It is rather ironic that the worst day of King John Albert’s life was the dawn of the best years of his reign. For over a decade, John Albert had struggled to govern Denmark and Norway. He faced opposition in religion, foreign affairs, and pretty much everything else. While he was the grandson of King Christian II of Denmark, many viewed John Albert as a usurper. His marriage to his cousin Dorothea, daughter of King Christian III, had done little to sooth those feelings. His establishment of Awakening as the national religion, while initially popular, had been viewed with greater and greater resentment over the years.

    In all likelihood, it was Queen Mother Eleanor that was really responsible for John Albert’s continuing reign. The second surviving child of the marriage of Prince Henry and Anne Boleyn, she had the singular ability to be universally loved. Charming and kind, Eleanor Tudor endeared herself to all sides and factions in the growing conflict.

    It’s why her death so shook the country.”
    Catelyn Narson, “Birth of the Kalmar Union”​


    “The Queen Mother was found this morning by her ladies, dead. I find that I feel as if the stars have refused to shine or the wind has swept the breath from my lungs. That the most gracious lady will no longer be with us, is the utmost tragedy. What’s more she was not taken in God’s time, but by man’s hand.

    There were marks on her throat indicating she was strangled. The news sent the King into a fury. Too often I have felt the King ineffectual or irresolute, but as he paced I was reminded of his grandfather the Prince. This may be the making of our King.”
    Letter from Christoffer Valkendorff to his younger brother, Erik​
     
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  5. AngelQueen Lady-in-Waiting

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    Ohio, USA
    Holy crap, Henry is going to be pissed when he learns someone murdered his daughter! Talk about a twist!

    Great update!
     
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  6. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Mar 22, 2012
    Poor Eleanor. But she will likely avenged as both Henry and John Albert will go in full rage mode now...
     
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  7. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    I’m glad you liked it :D I hope you like the following updates. Also, thanks for the comment.

    Henry is definitely in full rage mode. And it’s going to be interesting since we really haven’t been this Henry Tudor in rage mode. And thanks for the comment :)
     
  8. RobinP Member

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    Jan 2, 2019
    Wow shocker chapter! Also

    Who is the second King? I remember Henri his oldest son is King of Navarre, but none of the rest of the sons are Kings.
     
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  9. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    That is the question isn't it? :D Anyone have any guesses?
     
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  10. Threadmarks: Section Seventy-Seven - 1573

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    “Prince Henry would receive word of his daughter’s death during the fourth month of his visit to Hesse-Kassel. Leaving his youngest son Edmund with Landgravine Margaret, Prince Henry would travel with minimum companions to arrive in time for Eleanor Tudor’s funeral.”
    Rachel Rowell, “Father of the Reawakening, and a Good Father” ​


    “After the death of Queen Mother Eleanor, King John Albert would act quickly, several prominent nobles would be arrested and charged with conspiracy. Initially the suspects denied their culpability, but, after the arrival of Prince Henry, many would confess to their involvement in the murder of Eleanor Tudor.

    What once would have been contested was now welcomed by a country in morning. Rumors floated that Queen Dorothea may have been party to the death of her mother-in-law, and the marriage was annulled.”
    Catelyn Narson, “Birth of the Kalmar Union”​


    “The trial is ongoing, the ACCUSED is standing and trying to yell their innocence.

    JOHN ALBERT [yelling] : Silence, I will have silence! You have been called here to answ—

    ONE OF THE ACCUSED [hysterical] : Never would I harm the Queen! Never could I even thi—

    The large door at the end of the hall swings open, PRINCE HENRY enters. There is a hushed silence.

    PRINCE HENRY [full of grief] : Who killed my daughter?

    JOHN ALBERT [a little whiney] : These men here, conspired and murdered Mother.

    ACCUSED begin again to cry their innocence.

    PRINCE HENRY [quiet] : Silence

    The ACCUSED fall silent.

    PRINCE HENRY [even quieter] : You dare raise your voice! My daughter is dead! Your Queen is dead! At your hands!

    Silence

    ONE OF THE ACCUSED begins to speak

    PRINCE HENRY [loud] : No, I will not hear excuses nor pleas. I’ll hear naught but admissions.

    Silence

    ONE OF THE ACCUSED [manic] : As if at my own hand, the Lady fell, and I cannot recall her

    Silence

    JOHN ALBERT [calm] : From their own lips, we hear their guilt. Take them away. Grandfather, would you see justice done?

    PRINCE HENRY [tired] : Justice would have been no harm befalling my beloved daughter. But I will see the guilty punished.

    PRINCE HENRY, the ACCUSED, and company leave

    JOHN ALBERT [gleeful] : Grandfather can always be counted on, to draw the eye, to cow the fearful. Oh how he’d mourn to know in what ill way I have used him.”
    Selection from the English translation of ELEANOR first published in 1875​


    “The possible motives for the murder of Eleanor Tudor, are many and varied. Some suspect that she had a secret lover—she had been widowed for years—and a lover’s quarrel resulted in her death, others believe that she was killed due to the politics of the day—a measure she supported or didn’t support. While several prominent nobles would be arrested, tried, and executed for their role in her death, most historians now agree that it is very unlikely that one of the executed was responsible for Eleanor’s death.

    If not them, then who?

    The answer may shock and horrify you; Eleanor Tudor was murdered by her only son.”
    First recorded instance of the Eleanor Tudor’s Murderer conspiracy theory. Published in a newspaper on the anniversary of Eleanor Tudor’s death. ​
     
  11. Threadmarks: Section Seventy-Eight - 1573

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    “Kenny_Art_my_boi: Wait, did John Albert really kill his mom?!?!?!?!?!

    Kath&Cat: Could be. The theory showed up in the 1800s when the dudes who were executed where officially cleared.

    Kath&Cat: And if it’s true, Prince Henry terrified like 20 innocent people into confessing!!! Isn’t that epic!?!?!?!

    Malwavery: John Albert did not kill his mother. Also, the whole scene was totally wrong. Prince Henry didn’t get there during the trial, he was there a couple days before, for the funeral.

    Kath&Cat: JA totally could have killed her! JA really cashed in on Eleanor’s death. Like stone cold, turned it to his advantage. Also, the whole scene is a tribute to this old Kalmar play called Eleanor.

    Malwavery: John Albert killing his mom is on the same level as saying the moon landing never happened. wackadoodle. And I did know about the play, it doesn’t change to the that it’s historically inaccurate.

    Malwavery: And they did not confess because they were scared of Prince Henry, but because they actually did it.

    Kenny_Art_my_boi: If you two are just going to argue, can you pm so I don’t have to watch?”
    Tudor Chatroom​


    “Doctor Evelyn Vassily: Do I think John Albert killed his mother? No. I do think that having heard of how King Henri III handled the murder/suicide of Prince Christian and Princess Christina, John Albert knew that his mother’s death could be used to strengthen his position. And he did use it. But did he engineer it? I don’t think so. (Doctor of European Awakened History)

    Yancy Beltane: Yes. Read my book. (Author of John Albert, Deal with the Devil)

    Catelyn Narson: Murdered by John Albert? Do people still believe that? No, I don’t think Eleanor was killed by her son. John Albert couldn’t have predicted how the fallout would have gone. As far as he knew, his mother was the only reason he was still King. (Author of Birth of the Kalmar Union)

    Professor Jims Oliver: It’s entirely possible. The two had a complicated relationship. Eleanor Tudor doted on her son, because as King he had so much power over her. We see this pattern in Eleanor Tudor’s life: she tried to regain control by charming those who have power over her. And that’s a very byzantine dynamic to have with your mother. (Professor of History of Psychology)

    Harold Cathar: We really don’t know. The theory started in the late 1800s when historians began to question the culpability of [list of those sentenced cut due to length]. Documents were found indicating their probable innocence. But, even if they were completely innocent, John Albert wasn’t letting them off once he got them. These were some of his greatest opponents. The question isn’t why John Albert had them executed, it’s why did he stop looking for a murderer? That’s when people began to suspect John Albert. (Youtuber and History Mystery enthusiast)”
    Introduction to the documentary The Death of Eleanor Tudor (2009) ​
     
  12. Threadmarks: Section Seventy-Nine - 1573

    Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    “While we may never be sure who killed Eleanor Tudor, it should be said that Prince Henry must have been satisfied at the guilt of those executed. For, after the execution, Prince Henry would turn his attention to his newly eligible grandson. John Albert having taken the opportunity to set aside Queen Dorothea.

    As Prince Henry neared the end of his life, he desired to see his large family settled. Which for him led to the odd desire—for our time anyway—for his grandchildren to marry each other. [1] He would suggest several of his granddaughters, John Albert’s cousins, as brides to his grandson.

    In the end, John Albert would choose Mathilde Tudor, Princess of Julich-Cleves-Berg, daughter of Duke John Tudor, as bride due to her exceptionally large dowry. [2] While the marriage wouldn’t take place for a few years, due to Princess Mathilde’s age, the two would meet for the first time during Prince Henry’s visit.”
    Tammie Waltherson, “For the Tudors’ It’s All About Family”​

    [1] At every stop in Prince Henry’s last trip, at least one match would be suggested. Most of Prince Henry’s children ignored his advice through long practice.

    [2] Duke John Tudor being one of the richest men in Europe.


    “The contrast between the first two decades of John Albert’s reign and the last two decades, is extreme. During the first twenty years, John Albert was ineffectual and without support. But after the murder of his mother, John Albert would take advantage to gain momentum and he would never relinquish it. Taking his cue from his new father-in-law, John Albert would alter certain tariff and tax laws. Denmark and Norway would see greatly increased trade as a result. Additionally, John Albert would push for a more national feeling, doing much to unify Denmark and Norway.

    But, for all the accomplishments of the latter half of his reign, John Albert would never quite escape the first half. To this day, he is most commonly known, not for any of his own acts, not even the purported murder of his mother, but as the father of Queen Mathilde.”
    Catelyn Narson, “Birth of the Kalmar Union”​
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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  13. JuliantheUnknown Unknown Member

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    Jun 11, 2016
    Cue and quite misspelled here.
     
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  14. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    Fixed it, thanks :D
     
  15. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Mar 22, 2012
    Always more interesting...
     
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  16. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    Why thank you :) I’m glad you are enjoying it!
     
  17. JuliantheUnknown Unknown Member

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    Also, father to Queen Mathilde - maybe she'll marry a Tudor cousin and soon the Tudors will have another kingdom...
     
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  18. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    That would be a fun idea, but I already have a husband picked out for Queen Mathilde and he existed OTL. And Queen Mathilde is basically already a Tudor, half her grandparents were Tudors.
     
  19. JuliantheUnknown Unknown Member

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    Jun 11, 2016
    Ah well, probably best not to get too Hapsburg.
     
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  20. Cate13 Well-Known Member

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    Oct 25, 2016
    Hey everyone! I've got a question. What do you think a potential Navarrese colony would be named? A lot of the colonies were named after kings, (Carolinas, Louisiana, Georgia) so I was thinking Henrina, Henriana, or Henria, but I don't really like any of those. Thoughts?
     
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