Henry Prince of Wales lives till 1615, marries and leaves a posthumous son

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Valena, Mar 13, 2018.

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  1. Valena Well-Known Member

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    This is a PoD I'm currently using for an alternate Thirty Years War TL at fai.org.ru (major PoD in 1586, dissolution of Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth with Lithuania going under Maximilian Habsburg).

    TTL Henry of Wales marries a (non-existent in OTL) Habsburg-sponsored Lutheran Lithuanian bride in 1612 (he didn't want to marry a Catholic, nothing about Protestant princess for whom Habsburgs provide the dowry), and dies a few years later leaving the infant son called James (TTL James II).

    I need some brainstorming from English speaking public on how the things would proceed in England, if James I is succeeded by his 10-years old grandson instead of Charles I (though Charles, Duke of York, is assumed to play important part in the regency for his nephew).
     
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  2. Valena Well-Known Member

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    First of all, am I right in idea that "Scottish nobility vs London-grown Scottish king" is inevitable even with no attempts to Catholicize the Church of England/Scotland?
     
  3. pjmidd Well-Known Member

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    Nope, Scottish nobles were more into cash than anything else :). Seriously, they OTL ended up eventually selling the nations right to its own Parliament for 30 pieces of silver. In the highlands you have more trouble but that's a combination of Clan politics and religion ( Scottish Presbyterians vs Scottish Catholic ) mixed in with a strong desire for no central control ( or nominal control ). As long as they get their pensions, they don't really care were the King sits,as long as the King does not explicitly attack them.
    The Bishop's war that OTL broke out was not due to Charles I being "English" , just him trying to impose his view on the need for Bishops ( Presbyterians wanted a church without them ). They would have done the same if James I had tried to impose Bishops when he was still just James VI of Scotland.
    Got to remember England was the far richer country, Scottish Nobles started to acquire English estates that produced more income than their Scottish ones. As such, their desire to separate the countries ( and so lose those Estates ) waned very, very quickly. They will have issues if Religion is being challanged but no more so than the English ( hence the OTL James II being deposed in favor of William and Mary ). If Scotland is left to decide its own religious policies ( which if anything were similar in many ways to the thinking of the growing number of English Puritans ), they may grumble of a King being London based but usually it it would be just a ploy to get attention or , better still , money.
     
  4. Valena Well-Known Member

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    So, the religious issues still come to the forefront; even if the monarch is less openly absolutist than Charles, being open supporter of Lutheranism over Calvinism would piss the Puritan public off just as well.
     
  5. Jonathan Corbynite with fire in heart & food in belly

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    So TTL James II is born, a little before, March 1615 to Henry Frederick, Prince of Wales and his Lithuanian princess, who has links to Hasburgs, via her grandfather, Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor and Maxillian I, King of Poland Grand Duke of Lithuania?

    There will be a grand regency council, appointed members chosen by James I, with:
    - the royal uncle, Prince Charles of York
    - James' favourite, George Villiers, 1st Duke of Buckingham
    - Rev. George Abbot, the Archbishop of Canterbury
    - Henry Montagu, Baron Montagu of Kimbolton, Huntingdonshire, and Viscount Mandeville, he has held such offices as Chief Justice of the King's Bench, President of the Council, Lord High Treasurer. (IOTL he also went onto become judge of the Star Chamber, and one of the most trusted councillors of Charles I, who elevated him to 1st Earl of Manchester.)
    Rev John Williams, Bishop of Lincoln and Lord Keeper of the Great Seal (OTL went on to become archbishop of York)

    I could imagine the young prince, growing up in a household along with James Stewart, 4th Duke of Lennox (OTL 1st Duke of Richmond), a fourth cousin of James II, as the eldest son of Esmé Stewart, 3rd Duke of Lennox and his wife Katherine Clifton, 2nd Baroness Clifton
     
  6. TruthfulPanda Well-Known Member

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    A Lithuanian Lutheran bride is not possible ...
     
  7. Valena Well-Known Member

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    As I've said, this is the separate plot that is better not to discuss there, and Kettlers (the proxy noble family in PoD question) were Lutherans in OTL.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Kettler The father of the ATL princess (Catherine) in question for details sake.

    As I've said in opening post, there is a proxy bride with a Habsburg-provided dowry to whiggle around the religion issue. An actual half-Habsburg is unlikely unless the ATL Duchess of Courland is from Margraves of Burgau/somebody not that important.
    And as example of Mary of Modena shows us, the bride sponsored by great power is not necessary related to this power by birth. And as a Habsburg example of willingness to attach the proper dowry to Erdmuthe Sophia of Saxony, should Charles II marry her, as an alternative to Catholic candidate, showed, the situation is not without a precedent.

    Jonathan, thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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