Henry Fitzroy lives

For a bastard, Henry Fitzroy had a relatively high position by his father. Henry VIII kept a close eye on Fitzroy, especially as his obsession for an heir increases. The Duke of Richmond and Somerset had a promising career ahead of him, but much like his future half-brother would die a teenager, probably of tuberculosis. But what if he didn't? What if Henry Fitzroy lives at least until he's fifty? What might his life be like? How might this impact his father's actions, and when Edward VI assumes the throne(assuming he even exists in this timeline), what kind of role might Fitzroy play? What might this mean for his half-sisters?
 
Fitzroy was married to a Howard. There is question iotl whether it was ever consummated. H8 being worried that early sex was what killed his brother Arthur. So does anything happen to the marriage when Anne Boleyn (half Howard) falls from grace?
 
Doubt it Norfolk presided over his niece's trial - he knew which side his bread was buttered! Had Richmond lived I have little doubt he would have been named heir in the event of Edward dying without issue in preference to the King's daughter's. The Second Succession Act gave Henry in default of an heir to name who he liked to succeed him - it received Royal Assent before Richmond's death in the Summer of 1536. Assuming he lives then he will undoubtedly play a huge role on Henry VIII's death possibly preventing both the Seymour's and the Dudley's gaining so much influence under Edward VI.
If Edward dies as in OTL then its Henry IX (with some Catholic agitation on Mary's behalf).
Henry's final will is the key of course - but in otl - he was clear Edward, any children of Catherine Parr, then his illegitimate daughter's Mary and Elizabeth - unless Richmond fell out with his father before his death I have little doubt the King would have named him in the mix - the question then becomes the undoubtedly illegitimate Richmond (who is at least male and by 1553 probably a father) or the two female's both of whom were born to woman acknowledged as Queen's but who were declared illegitimate by statute.
 
For a bastard, Henry Fitzroy had a relatively high position by his father. Henry VIII kept a close eye on Fitzroy, especially as his obsession for an heir increases. The Duke of Richmond and Somerset had a promising career ahead of him, but much like his future half-brother would die a teenager, probably of tuberculosis. But what if he didn't? What if Henry Fitzroy lives at least until he's fifty? What might his life be like? How might this impact his father's actions, and when Edward VI assumes the throne(assuming he even exists in this timeline), what kind of role might Fitzroy play? What might this mean for his half-sisters?
Or vampirism.
 
I'd like to see a TL where FitzRoy defies dad's orders (he's a horny teenage boy after all), and lo! and behold, Mary Howard brings forth a son, while Jane Seymour dies giving birth to another girl. Dad probably remarries with about as little chance of producing a male (or any) heir after 1537 as OTL.
 
Doubt it Norfolk presided over his niece's trial - he knew which side his bread was buttered!
Did not remember that. Oh well, there goes my dream of a surviving Fitroy marrying his slightly older, unmarried until 1544 IOTL, cousin Margaret Douglas. Frances Brandon was already married to Grey 1533 and Eleanor to Clifford in 1537.

Assuming he lives then he will undoubtedly play a huge role on Henry VIII's death possibly preventing both the Seymour's and the Dudley's gaining so much influence under Edward VI.
How smart a player does he turn out to be is then the question. He will be 28 or so when H8 dies. Will Fitzroy be independent or will he initially rely on the counsel of the likes of Edward Seymour, or worse Thomas Seymour? Does Dudley still rise high so that his mores sensible (but still grasping) opinion is taken into much consideration?

If Fitzroy is still married to Mary Howard, does Thomas Howard (3rd Duke of Norfolk) get released from the tower any time soon after H8's death. Howard died in 1554, being released from the Tower by Queen Mary. Could he possibly have influence. Or his surviving son, also named Thomas?

Who else might be well positioned to catch Fitzroy's ear?

I could see an inexperienced, poor playing Fitzroy loose influence, or even a place, on the Regency Council. But unlike Seymour (Somerset), do to his blood, I can't see him being executed for losing such.

unless Richmond fell out with his father before his death I have little doubt the King would have named him in the mix - the question then becomes the undoubtedly illegitimate Richmond (who is at least male and by 1553 probably a father) or the two female's both of whom were born to woman acknowledged as Queen's but who were declared illegitimate by statute.
Fitzroy would definitely be in the mix for the crown, but would he get it? That is where I see a marriage to one of his Tudor cousins as rather a powerful multiplier. If he did, and they had a son, perhaps he could claim the throne in the child's name.

I guess a lot might depend upon how well the perception of his time leading the Regency Council for E6 was?
 
Fitzroy in the latest will of Henry would be almost surely named as heir after Edward and any children of Catherine Parr and before Mary and Elizabeth and would be part of the regency council for Edward. He was already married to Mary Howard, daughter of the Duke of Norfolk but their eldest son would be almost surely married to Jane Grey (younger sons and daughters would likely marry Seymours, Herberts, Howards or Dudleys)
 
The Howard mob didn't really work as a block that much - there were divisions in the large family (Mary Duchess of Richmond for example fell out with her brother - and remained pro-reform in religion). Norfolk and Surrey could well end up in the same position as in OTL with Fitzroy doing little to help them out.
Given his age Fitzroy is probably like Elizabeth and Edward before his accession in religious terms - Protestant-leaning but still holding to some Catholic trappings (probably holding to religion as established in the final decade of Henry's reign) - Edward moved towards a clearer Lutheranism on his accession. To English Catholics Fitzroy's religion might appeal enough when compared to Edward's Lutheranism to prevent them rising in favour of Mary in the event of his accession.
I wouldn't rule out a significant clash between Hertford (Edward VI's uncle) and Fitzroy on Henry VIII death.
 
Did not remember that. Oh well, there goes my dream of a surviving Fitroy marrying his slightly older, unmarried until 1544 IOTL, cousin Margaret Douglas. Frances Brandon was already married to Grey 1533 and Eleanor to Clifford in 1537.

Hey, if you're gonna change a few things, change a few more. I think marrying him to Margaret Douglas makes a lot of sense. It would give him a claim that comes from the legitimate line. At the time, I think Henry VIII didn't get along super well with Margaret Douglas's mother, but a few butterflies here or there. I think it would be interesting.
 
The Howard marriage for Fitzroy was in part due to the influence of the family through Anne Boleyn's relationship with the King and had been long suggested before it was completed in November 1533. The Howard's survived Anne's fall so there was little to suggest the match be abandoned (though the couple had been banned by the King from living as man and wife).
Had the King contemplated breaking the Howard marriage the time would be in the aftermath of Anne's fall - unfortunately Margaret Douglas had secretly got herself engaged to Anne's uncle Thomas Howard to the King's fury - Howard ended up in the Tower where he eventually died. Margaret broke it off but later fell for another Howard annoying the King again - her behaviour (which to Henry reminded him of her mother's rather spotty record) probably cost her any chance of being included in the succession.
 
I feel like there's an elephant in the room: what would happen at the death of Edward VI between Fitzroy and Mary Tudor? Won't catholic lords and foreign potentates support the (in their eyes) only legitimate heir of Henry VIII and perhaps trigger a war of succession?
Because Fitzroy as opposed to E6 was unquestionably a bastard. Would they even recognise him?
 
I feel like there's an elephant in the room: what would happen at the death of Edward VI between Fitzroy and Mary Tudor? Won't catholic lords and foreign potentates support the (in their eyes) only legitimate heir of Henry VIII and perhaps trigger a war of succession?
Because Fitzroy as opposed to E6 was unquestionably a bastard. Would they even recognise him?

If Henry VIII's will names FitzRoy after Edward and ahead of Mary and Elizabeth (i.e. parliament and the country accepts it) is any foreign ruler really in a position to meddle? I mean sure, they'll murmur about his bastardy as they did with Liz OTL, but is anyone in England gonna go with a female ruler? OTL the only heirs were female, so they didn't have much choice. Here, they've got a legitimate male, two bastard girls (who depending on how you see things ARE technically legitimate), and a bastard boy (who everyone AGREES is legitimate) but "[heavy sarcasm] One of Edward's sisters as queen? Sure! Why not? Cause last time worked so well [with Matilda]"
 
After Edward’s death Henry Fitzroy will be the next King and Jane Grey will be the princess of Wales (aka Edward and Fitzroy will marry her to Fitzroy eldest son for reinforce his claim)
 
Have just skimmed this - I quite agree Henry Fitzroy would be King after Edward if he lived - at least by the terms of Henry's will. Whether Mary would stand for it is another story, but I have a feeling she'd have a harder time against Henry Fitzroy than she did against Jane Grey, especially if Henry has a son or two by Mary Howard by this point, which they probably will - they married in the 1530s, so young or not at the time, no one is going to say they can't live together by c.1540/41, especially if the Katherine Howard debacle goes as OTL and Henry VIII wants to shore up his masculine pride by becoming a grandfather. I suspect people might be happier to see a male in his late thirties with an undisputable heir as King, than an unmarried ageing woman, regardless of their respective legitimacy. We are less than a century out of the Wars of the Roses at this point, after all...
 
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