Henri Giraud Leads Free French Forces

What if Henri Giraud led the Free French forces instead of Charles de Gaulle? A plausible POD I thought of is, de Gaulle crashing in the bomber headed to Scotland. Could there be any other PODs? How would his presidency of France turn out?
 
I like this idea of an alternateive French general leading the Free French during ww2. Can you give some background info for General Giraud?
 
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Veteran French General

A general captured during both World Wars, General Henri Giraud took command of French troops in Operation Torch, directing them to join the Allies. He retired in late 1944 after failing to reach an agreement with Charles de Gaulle.
 
The first consequence which comes to mind is that Rommel reaches Egypt after capturing a big part of 8th Army (or at least its logistics tail).

Butterflies from there but the Nazis still loose the war, from Nukes, if nothing else.

Another is that AMGOT is installed in France. Again lots of butterflies from that. Likely France has a communist government at one point in the 50s or 60s.
 
At what point did Charles de Gaulle and the Free French play a pivotal role in stopping Rommel?
 
At what point did Charles de Gaulle and the Free French play a pivotal role in stopping Rommel?

The 13th DBLE at Bir-Hakeim managed to stop Rommel for 2 weeks. Without this, Rommel takes Tobrouk 2 weeks in advance of OTL, before it can be fortified and with a lot of logistic supplies undestroyed. Also, without that delay, the planned assault on Malta would have gone on. With Logitics from Tobruk and Malta in axis hands, Rommel logistics are much better than OTL, which means he reaches Egypt.

The point is that Bir-Hakeim was nothing special, one of a string of identical fortifications, all of which, bar one, fell at the first assault. The only difference was the quality of the troops manning it. The British HQ didn't expect an assault here and didn't want to put good troops in the middle of nowhere. And the only reason the 13th DBLE was assigned to Bir-Hakeim (previously, they were guarding rear airports in Egypt) was De Gaulle pestering Churchill to put the DBLE on the front rather than in the rear. So the british HQ put them in the least threatened area of the front and the rest is history....

If Giraud instead of De Gaulle, Churchill is not pestered, Bir-Hakeim falls, Malta falls, Rommel gets much needed logistics resupply and can rush to egypt, bagging a lot of unprepared british troops along the way (El-Alamein is remembered as one more Rommel victory if it is remembered at all).
 
Koenigs troops did very well...but...

The 13th DBLE at Bir-Hakeim managed to stop Rommel for 2 weeks. Without this, Rommel takes Tobrouk 2 weeks in advance of OTL, before it can be fortified and with a lot of logistic supplies undestroyed. Also, without that delay, the planned assault on Malta would have gone on. With Logitics from Tobruk and Malta in axis hands, Rommel logistics are much better than OTL, which means he reaches Egypt.

The point is that Bir-Hakeim was nothing special, one of a string of identical fortifications, all of which, bar one, fell at the first assault. The only difference was the quality of the troops manning it. The British HQ didn't expect an assault here and didn't want to put good troops in the middle of nowhere. And the only reason the 13th DBLE was assigned to Bir-Hakeim (previously, they were guarding rear airports in Egypt) was De Gaulle pestering Churchill to put the DBLE on the front rather than in the rear. So the british HQ put them in the least threatened area of the front and the rest is history....

If Giraud instead of De Gaulle, Churchill is not pestered, Bir-Hakeim falls, Malta falls, Rommel gets much needed logistics resupply and can rush to egypt, bagging a lot of unprepared british troops along the way (El-Alamein is remembered as one more Rommel victory if it is remembered at all).

...Bir Hakim would not have been abandoned had the Free French not been there - the Axis forces would still have to had fought this battle

So 13th DBLE (supported by 8th Army) is instead replaced by another formation (also supported by 8th Army) or more acccurately the 13th does not replace the Indian army Brigade that originally built the initial fortifications and laid the 50,000 odd mines around the base.

This original force instead holds the Bir-Hakim Position and the battle for that 'Brigade Box' probably goes as OTL - although it is probably less well known because of a lesser need to use it as a propaganda tool to big up the Free French forces as was the case here.

So no the Germans do not magically get to capture Trobruk 2 weeks early and route the 8th Army from Egypt nor does Malta Fall as a result.

Bir Hakim was a difficult battle for the Axis because of the distances involved from the coast road and the fact that they were fighting a major battle with the rest of 8th Army at the time.
 
...Bir Hakim would not have been abandoned had the Free French not been there - the Axis forces would still have to had fought this battle

So 13th DBLE (supported by 8th Army) is instead replaced by another formation (also supported by 8th Army) or more acccurately the 13th does not replace the Indian army Brigade that originally built the initial fortifications and laid the 50,000 odd mines around the base.

This original force instead holds the Bir-Hakim Position and the battle for that 'Brigade Box' probably goes as OTL - although it is probably less well known because of a lesser need to use it as a propaganda tool to big up the Free French forces as was the case here.

So no the Germans do not magically get to capture Trobruk 2 weeks early and route the 8th Army from Egypt nor does Malta Fall as a result.

Bir Hakim was a difficult battle for the Axis because of the distances involved from the coast road and the fact that they were fighting a major battle with the rest of 8th Army at the time.


I disagree.

Bir-Hakeim was one of a line of fortifications. All the other forts fell at the first assault, even the ones held by the Indian army OTL. Bir Hakeim held even when tanks had penetrated inside the internal perimeter or when the full weight of Rommel airforce was concentrated upon it.
 
And Herni Giraud would have ordered them to surrender? Note this isn't the difference between OTL and having no Free French, this is the difference between de Gaulle and Giraud being in charge of them.
 
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Was he an apolitical soldier? I'm curious what role he could play in postwar France, whether or not he leads the Free French.
Not much he died in 1949. I don't think he has a shot a becoming the leader of free France since he was captured in May 1940. I believe that without de Gaulle there wouldn't be a Free France. Sure there would be some french volonteer but not really a free France.
 
The 13th DBLE at Bir-Hakeim managed to stop Rommel for 2 weeks.

The Battle of Bir Hakeim took place May 26 to June 21, 1942.

Henri Giraud did not escape his POW camp until April 17, 1942 where he escaped to Vichy France. He was not contacted by the Allies to defect to the Free French until Operation Torch in October 1942, and he did not physically join up with the Allies until he arrived at Gibraltar in November 1942.

Any plausible scenario where Giraud leads Free French Forces has to happen way after the Battle of Bir Hakeim.

If DeGaulle dies anytime between November 1942 and September 1943, Giraud is the most likely man to succeed him as leader of the Free French.
 
I disagree.

Bir-Hakeim was one of a line of fortifications. All the other forts fell at the first assault, even the ones held by the Indian army OTL. Bir Hakeim held even when tanks had penetrated inside the internal perimeter or when the full weight of Rommel airforce was concentrated upon it.

150th Brigade box of 50th "TT" Division which was the next 'box' or fortified position to the north was attacked by the Panzer Armee from 28th May and was eventually overrun late on the 1st June - which is hardly falling at the first assault. Unless you consider first assaults lasting 4 days?

Later Boxes were rapidly evacuated as it was clear that the Axis had gained the advantage and nothing was to be gained by holding them as very little support could be sent.

I'm not denying that the French fought well but those tanks you mention were Italian tanks of the Ariete Division (IX Tank Battalion) - A good Division - but very poor tanks (mostly Fiat M13/40s) and driven unsupported into a minefield and then 10 of those tanks managing to break through into the sights of the French 75mm guns with the result that always happened when unsupported tanks try to take on well sited AT weapons

Bir Hakim was only a part of a much larger action - had it been held by the original troops assigned to it then it too is likely to survive just as long.

One of the main factors in the overall Axis victory was the defeat of the British Armoured forces and other mobile formations which took until the 13th June on which day the last major British Tank formations were defeated.

To suggest that the entire battle hinged around this one position and that a successful defence could only be made by French troops is pure ignorance.
 
A general captured during both World Wars, General Henri Giraud took command of French troops in Operation Torch, directing them to join the Allies. He retired in late 1944 after failing to reach an agreement with Charles de Gaulle.

This is false in almost every thing after the first comma.

In 1942, a faction in Vichy French North Africa conspired to bring North Africa over to the Allies by a coup d'état combined with Allied invasion. This group was not connected to De Gaulle's "Free France" organization; they were army commanders and officials in the Vichy administration, and some civilian political players. Their goal was to gain control of Algeria (then legally a part of France, as much as Brittany or Burgundy) and be recognized as the lawful government of France, superseding both the Pétain government in Vichy and De Gaulle. As such they would then reap various political and fiscal rewards.

This group was in close contact with American Consul Robert Murphy and through him with the Allies. They were supposed to assist TORCH by having troops they commanded make no resistance, but this failed (in part because at Casablanca the Allies blew the timing and came in guns blazing, so to speak). In Algiers they organized a paramilitary force which seized most of the city the night before; Allied troops did get there before the Vichyites had recovered, and that's also how Darlan got grabbed.

Giraud was a senior (four-star; De Gaulle was only two-star) French General who was picked by the plotters to be the figurehead of their group; the Allies agreed. Giraud was in Vichy France at this time, having escaped from Germany. Both groups imagined that Giraud had sufficient prestige to be obeyed by all the French forces in North Africa.

However, Giraud had accepted the position in the belief that he would be in actual command of all troops involved (including American troops), and that there would be no British troops involved; he also expected Allied landings in southern France. When he was brought from France to Gibraltar the night before the landings, and learned the true situation, he refused to participate in any way.

After the landings, the Allies induced him to order the French to submit, but his orders had no effect - fighting at Casablanca and Oran continued. The Allies then made the famous (notorious?) deal with Darlan, who became head of French forces and government in North Africa. Giraud then became military commader under Darlan.

When Darlan was assassinated two weeks later, Giraud succeeded him. By this time there was intense pressure from De Gaulle and his supporters to put Free France in charge. In early 1943, Giraud reached an agreement with De Gaulle to be co-presidents of the "Comité français de la Libération Nationale", with Giraud as military chief. De Gaulle maneuvered for complete political control while Giraud ran the Free French forces. Giraud was pushed out in late 1943, and retired soon after.
 
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I read somewhere that de Gaulle sent some thugs to beat Giraud, to avoid being subordinated to him. And de Gaulle was the one with stronger personality.
 
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