help with post napoleon, pre ACW warfare

I've started a thread called Maple Uprising for a potential wargame that takes place in the late 1830s-early 1840s during a version of the Canadian Patriotes rebellion that turns into a full scale conflict.

Now I'm not an expert in military tactics and technology (the thread will be more an excuse to develop the visual aspect of thing like most of my other threads) so if other people who are a bit more knowledgeable of the era could give some suggestions, it would be most appreciated to flesh out the setting.

Since I have a fair bit of information about the british forces present, what I'm looking for are what type of units and weapons would be most likely to be present among the Patriotes. Since I also want the game to be interesting, I'm also open to suggestion about improvised weapons or unusual units they might used (no moose riders though) or prototypes that came out around that time that someone might realistically decide to try out on the field.

Thanks in advance to anyone.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotes_Rebellion
Here's a good Wikipedia article on the Patriotes Rebellion. Is the idea is that the Americans decide to support the Patriotes, leading to a larger conflict, a la Second War of 1812? Louis Joseph Papineau, one of the more prominent Patriotes leaders, spoke of how the rebels needed to look to their brothers to the south for aid, or something to that effect.

In terms of tactics, from what I've read, the tactics of the British/'Canadians' were classic, Napoleonic Era linear/columnar tactics, I believe Osprey has some good books pertaining to this subject. Patriotes would use a mixture of this and classic guerrilla tactics, similar to those of the French-indian war, the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, and the more recent Peninsular War in Spain.

Most weapons would be flintlocks, probably. The Patriotes would be equipped with a mix of civilian muskets and rifles, and some muskets taken from the British/'Canadian' regulars (most likely Brown Bess models, the British were using them in the Anglo-Afghan War in the 1840's). 'Canadian' government militias would likely be armed similarly to the Patriotes, only their British guns would be supplied, not captured. There's another good list of Canadian army weapons here (look at the colonial era section):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lonial_Era_to_Confederation_.281604_-_1867.29

Concerning Cavalry & Artillery, should the conflict involve Britain and America, again I'd suggest reading up on Napoleonic Artillery and Cavalry tactics, since I don't think much would've changed. IDK about the calibres of British artillery, but I don't think the would've changed much since the Napoleonic wars either; in terms of artillery projectiles, it would still be explosive shell & solid shot, with Grape & Canister shot, and Shrapnel shells.

Hope I've been of some assistance.:)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotes_Rebellion
Here's a good Wikipedia article on the Patriotes Rebellion. Is the idea is that the Americans decide to support the Patriotes, leading to a larger conflict, a la Second War of 1812? Louis Joseph Papineau, one of the more prominent Patriotes leaders, spoke of how the rebels needed to look to their brothers to the south for aid, or something to that effect.

I want to avoid having the US and Britain declare war on one another as this would put too much emphasis on them rather then a Canadian Civil War. At most, I would prefer having some US volunteers on the Patriotes sides as well as some unofficial Maine militiamen operating in the Aroostook area.

In terms of tactics, from what I've read, the tactics of the British/'Canadians' were classic, Napoleonic Era linear/columnar tactics, I believe Osprey has some good books pertaining to this subject. Patriotes would use a mixture of this and classic guerrilla tactics, similar to those of the French-indian war, the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, and the more recent Peninsular War in Spain.

My working timeline right now has the Nelson invasion of 1838 succeed and part of Lower Canada being under the control of the Patriotes. A split then arise between Papineau and his close followers who wants to dig in, attempt to get recognised as beligerents by other countries and then negociate from that stand with the british for either independence or what would amount to responsible government and Nelson who wants to keep going. Papineau wins over a majority so that Nelson is left with some of the Frere-chasseurs lodge in "non-liberated" lower Canada. This mean you would have 3 republics of lower Canada, upper Canada and Madawaska (who got dragged in) operating along traditional warfare lines and the frères-chasseurs who would be guerrillas.

Most weapons would be flintlocks, probably. The Patriotes would be equipped with a mix of civilian muskets and rifles, and some muskets taken from the British/'Canadian' regulars (most likely Brown Bess models, the British were using them in the Anglo-Afghan War in the 1840's). 'Canadian' government militias would likely be armed similarly to the Patriotes, only their British guns would be supplied, not captured. There's another good list of Canadian army weapons here (look at the colonial era section):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lonial_Era_to_Confederation_.281604_-_1867.29

I'm wondering if they could get weapons from other sources too. There was rumours (unconfirmed OTL but assumed to be true ATL) that the Russian Consul in Boston helped the patriote with some money so could they have received Russian weapons smuggled into the US from Alaska ? I also wonder if the French would like to get on the action both to regain so influence in North America and to get back the british from being a bit too friendly with the Mexican during the Pastry War.

Concerning Cavalry & Artillery, should the conflict involve Britain and America, again I'd suggest reading up on Napoleonic Artillery and Cavalry tactics, since I don't think much would've changed. IDK about the calibres of British artillery, but I don't think the would've changed much since the Napoleonic wars either; in terms of artillery projectiles, it would still be explosive shell & solid shot, with Grape & Canister shot, and Shrapnel shells.
any idea about rockets ?

Hope I've been of some assistance.:)

it has, thanks.
 
In terms of tactics, from what I've read, the tactics of the British/'Canadians' were classic, Napoleonic Era linear/columnar tactics,
True, with the proviso that since 1824 all British infantry had been expected to skirmish. Also, the command "Fire" was removed from the drill book in 1833: on "present", soldiers were permitted to fire independently.

in terms of artillery projectiles, it would still be explosive shell & solid shot, with Grape & Canister shot, and Shrapnel shells.

Not grape- it damages the bore of brass guns and is only used at sea. The range for a six-pounder is about 1,000 yards, using roundshot above 300 yards and case below that. Shrapnel was for ranges above 650 yards (the practice being to aim fifty yards short, so that the splinters and bullets carry another 200-300 yards).

There was a rocket troop- picture from 1835 here- but it was fairly inaccurate and used primarily for broken and difficult country due to matters of mobility. The rockets don't like extremes of hot or cold, or rough roads for that matter.

All the above is from Hew Strachan's From Waterloo to Balaclava.
 

Delta Force

Banned
So, some interesting weapons from the 1800s. Most of them are American Civil War era, but some are earlier, or based on earlier technology. Colt revolvers (and I suppose rifles), percussion caps (and if you butterfly it, Maynard tape), breechloaders, and interchangable parts are all before the 1840s. I can get you information on artillery, machine guns, and other weapons, but I think that is mostly 1850s and later technology. If you are open to butterflies or perhaps a later date (1850s could do) you can have some very interesting options.

Breechloaders:
-- M1819 Hall Rifle (first weapon with interchangeable parts)
-- Burnside Carbine (used brass cartridges)
-- Joslyn Rifle (used paper cartridges)
-- Maynard carbine (breechloading brass cartridge weapon)
-- Starr Carbine (used paper, linen, or brass cartridges)

Lever Action Repeaters:
-- Henry rifle (used brass cartridges)
-- Spencer Repeating Rifle (used brass cartridges)

Pistols:
-- Lefaucheux M1858 (brass cartridge revolver)
-- LeMat Revolver (nine shot revolver with a secondary shotgun barrel, some versions used brass cartridges)

Technologies:
-- Colt Revolving Rifle (Colt revolver technology scaled up to rifle caliber)
-- Maynard Tape Primer
-- Whitworth Rifling (scalable to cannons)
-- Snider-Enfield (1866 conversion of the M1853 Enfield muzzleloader into a breechloading brass cartridge rifle)
-- Minie Ball
-- Needle Guns
-- Tige Guns (early rifle technology prior to minie balls)
-- Teat Fire Cartridges (primer protruded from the back of the cartridge, instead of being in the rim)
-- Volcanic Repeating Arms (lever action rifles and pistols with cartridge technology)
 

Dorozhand

Banned
As far as Post-Napoleon and Pre-ACW military technology and tactics are concerned, the beginning of the Mexican-American War is a good place to start looking. Classic Napoleonic tactics essentially dominated, as can be seen with the description of the Battle of Palo Alto:

Facing north and moving left to right, General Arista's army consisted of General Antonio Canales Rosillo's 400 irregular cavalry in chaparral, Anastasio Torrejon's cavalry brigade consisting of the 8th, 7th and Light Cavalry, astride the Point Isabel road, then came General Jose Maria Garcia's brigade of the 4th and 10th Infantry with two 8-pounders, then General Romulo Diaz de la Vega's brigade of the 10th and 6th Infantry with five 4-pounders, then the Tampico Corps, the 2d Light Infantry and a sapper battalion with a 4-pounder. Behind this line was Col. Cayetano Montero's light cavalry.

Facing south and moving right to left, Taylor placed Col. David E. Twiggs with Lt. Col. James S. McIntosh's 5th Infantry and Capt. Samuel Ringgold's artillery battery, followed by Capt. Lewis N. Morris' 3d Infantry with Lt. William H. Churchill's two 18-pounders astride the road, followed by Capt. George W. Allen's 4th Infantry, Lt. Thomas Childs'artillery battalion, Lt. Col. William G. Belknap's wing, James Duncan's battery, then Capt. William R. Montgomery's 8th Infantry on the American left. Lt. Col. Charles A. May's dragoon squadron guarded the left flank and Capt. Croghan Ker guarded the train.

Taylor halted his columns and formed a line behind his batteries when the Mexican artillery started firing at 2 PM. The American artillery was very effective while the Mexican artillery often fell short. Arista ordered Torrejon's cavalry to attack the American right, but progress was slow allowing Twiggs to form the 5th Infantry into a square to meet them with a couple of volleys.

A fire started from a cannon burning wad which halted fighting for an hour as the smore paralleled the lines. Arista pulled back 1000 yards on his left and Taylor advanced accordingly, rotating the axis of the battle 40 degrees counterclockwise. May failed to turn the Mexican left before the artillery dual resumed. Child's artillery battalion formed a square to repel another Torrejon cavalry charge. Duncan's battery stopped Arista from turning the American left and then advanced with the 8th Infantry and Ker's dragoons to drive the Mexican right from the field. A charge ordered by Arista at this time resulted in the light cavalry fleeing along the Mexican line, taking the 6th Infantry with them.

Fighting stopped with dusk and both armies camped for the night
 
So, some interesting weapons from the 1800s. Most of them are American Civil War era, but some are earlier, or based on earlier technology. Colt revolvers (and I suppose rifles), percussion caps (and if you butterfly it, Maynard tape), breechloaders, and interchangable parts are all before the 1840s. I can get you information on artillery, machine guns, and other weapons, but I think that is mostly 1850s and later technology. If you are open to butterflies or perhaps a later date (1850s could do) you can have some very interesting options.

thanks for that, will have a read. Anything more "exotic" ? I found a description of a submarine by a French inventor called Brutus de Villeroi. His first prototype was unveiled in 1932 so I could have him come to Lower Canada in an attempt to demonstrate the application of the Nautilus in combat in a bid to sell it to the French navy.
 
As far as Post-Napoleon and Pre-ACW military technology and tactics are concerned, the beginning of the Mexican-American War is a good place to start looking. Classic Napoleonic tactics essentially dominated, as can be seen with the description of the Battle of Palo Alto:

Thing is, I don't know if the Patriotes would go much for that. The bulk of them are militiamen use to hit-and-run or skirmishes, not lines of fire.
 
Thing is, I don't know if the Patriotes would go much for that. The bulk of them are militiamen use to hit-and-run or skirmishes, not lines of fire.
If they want to be an actual army, rather than a guerrilla force, they will have to at some point. The American Revolution is a good comparison; people remember the rebels as fighting with hit-and-run attacks, but most of the actual battles were fought with European-style battle lines. Likewise, the Peninsular Campaign featured Wellington's army fighting major battles, as well as guerrilla fighting by partisans. The time isn't particularly conducive to guerrilla campaigns succeeding on their own, and the Patriotes will presumably want to take and hold the major cities at some point.

I second others' recommendations to read up on some of the Mexican War battles; if you want some individuals' perspectives on what the fighting looked like at ground level, various individuals wrote memoirs, of which Grant's is obviously the most famous (and is readily available online).
 
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