Help with 30 years war TL

I'm trying to write an alternate 30 year's war to my TL and was wondering if it is possible for a loosing nation to be split into two. It did not happen in OTL and I am not sure if such practice was common back then. The country would be France and Occitania would created as a Spanish puppet.
 
Not happening with the thirty years war as we know it, and pretty difficult even with extensive tinkering.

If you could get a thirty years war style conflict fought predominantly on french soil, with multiple foreign armies dueling for supremacy and a bitterly divided populace, possibly at least a temporary division (maybe an outgrowth of the french wars of religion?). But there are a number of obstacles to overcome, such as the weaknesses of france's neighbors and france's unity relative to germany. And somehow I have doubts about this creating a permanent division of france, although it probably will never achieve the geographic spread that it did IOTL.
 
I'm trying to write an alternate 30 year's war to my TL .

Criminy! I can only recommend to leave while you can. ;)

No, seriously, I got into writing such a timeline, and I was overwhelmed by how much research I had to do to design anything hardly reasonable. As you seem to be working on the same topic, I would of course very much appreciate your comments on my TL so far.
Needless to say, I would enjoy to follow your tl when started.

As to your question:
First, I cannot imagine that a peace treaty would question the nominal existence of any independant state. OTL's 30-years war caused a maximum of destruction and
revolution, but the Peace of Westphalia did not even unhinge the territories granted to Sweden from the Holy Roman Empire.
True, it did acknowledge the independence of the (Northern) Netherlands and Switzerland,
but these was just acknowledging the matter of fact of before the war.
The treaty did not even go so far as to accept the same fact for the Northern Italy territories.


But of course, in that epoche, you can have the de-facto situation you described,
with the formal integrity of France untouched.

To this end, a major portion of it has to be given as a fief, not necessarily to
a foreign ruler, but preferredly to an adversary of the king.
The main problem here is, as mentioned, the rather centralistic structure of France,
as opposed to Germany or even Poland or England.
However, the last polish of that political structure is relatively recent
(it was accomplished when Richelieu was already in power).
Although a French duke had not been as autonomous as a German one before that,
there will be still a lot of support for the idea of reenhancing the status of the nobility.


A lot depends on the closer circumstances you have in mind ...
 
Criminy! I can only recommend to leave while you can. ;)

No, seriously, I got into writing such a timeline, and I was overwhelmed by how much research I had to do to design anything hardly reasonable. As you seem to be working on the same topic, I would of course very much appreciate your comments on my TL so far.
Needless to say, I would enjoy to follow your tl when started.

As to your question:
First, I cannot imagine that a peace treaty would question the nominal existence of any independant state. OTL's 30-years war caused a maximum of destruction and
revolution, but the Peace of Westphalia did not even unhinge the territories granted to Sweden from the Holy Roman Empire.
True, it did acknowledge the independence of the (Northern) Netherlands and Switzerland,
but these was just acknowledging the matter of fact of before the war.
The treaty did not even go so far as to accept the same fact for the Northern Italy territories.


But of course, in that epoche, you can have the de-facto situation you described,
with the formal integrity of France untouched.

To this end, a major portion of it has to be given as a fief, not necessarily to
a foreign ruler, but preferredly to an adversary of the king.
The main problem here is, as mentioned, the rather centralistic structure of France,
as opposed to Germany or even Poland or England.
However, the last polish of that political structure is relatively recent
(it was accomplished when Richelieu was already in power).
Although a French duke had not been as autonomous as a German one before that,
there will be still a lot of support for the idea of reenhancing the status of the nobility.


A lot depends on the closer circumstances you have in mind ...

Thanks a bunch I think I'll probably go with the de facto situation you have described. The TL has already started it is actually my English Hapsburgs so the POD is almost 100 years earlier. The obvious difference between TTL's war and OTL's war is which side England is on. Spain is also much more powerful this time around.
 
The one area that you have a remote possibility with is Navarre, which has only been unified to the French crown for a few decades and had been the seat of Protestantism until Henri IV sacrified it for the French crown. If Protestantism in France becomes a significant aspect of France losing, then there may well be cadet branches of the Bourbons who are willing to accept the Navarese crown on that condition.

Best regards
Grey Wolf
 
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