HELP: The Nazis and Japan take over the world

Teleology

Banned
I for one am against false distinctions being made regarding AH.

If a TL doesn't involve magic or time travel or goblins and whatnot it belongs in these boars (1900's, Future History, Pre-1900's). Alternate History is simply a form of speculative fiction and the alternate histories that got everyone into alternate history in the first place tend to be ones that wouldn't pass the metaphorical mustard of the hypocritical and highly selectively applied standards some try to enforce artificially on these boards beyond the actual rules.

Trying to keep the board "more plausible than Turtledove novels" is NOT something to be proud of.
 
I for one am against false distinctions being made regarding AH.

If a TL doesn't involve magic or time travel or goblins and whatnot it belongs in these boars (1900's, Future History, Pre-1900's). Alternate History is simply a form of speculative fiction and the alternate histories that got everyone into alternate history in the first place tend to be ones that wouldn't pass the metaphorical mustard of the hypocritical and highly selectively applied standards some try to enforce artificially on these boards beyond the actual rules.

Trying to keep the board "more plausible than Turtledove novels" is NOT something to be proud of.

On the other hand, it depends on WHICH of his novels. Not if you mean his stand alone "Guns of the North". That's simply a scifi or sci/fantasy that doesn't get COMPLETELY ridiculous. After all, if only ONE side has modern weapons...

But if you mean his endless series of ACW Neo-ConfederateWank books that has the South holding out until WW2??:rolleyes:

As Cook wrote, QUITE a low benchmark.:mad::p
 
BTW, OP: There was a wargame called: "Tomorrow The World!" based on this concept. I'll see if I can find it.


Try Boardgamegeek DOT com.

It's an old XTR/Command Magazine design, one of Ty Bomba's efforts IIRC. The premise involves the Nazis and Japanese squaring off after winning WW2 to see who will rule the world. The map covers the whole world too.

From what I remember, neither the magazine article or Bomba himself believed the the premise. It was just an excuse to design/produce a fun, world-spanning game with a horrific premise. At the time there was a saying in the wargaming industry that any successful title had to have either nukes, Nazis, or NATO. In Tomorrow The World, Bomba included two of the three. (In another game, he managed to insert all three!)

Bomba produced a few more games set in the same "world". One featured St. Louis as Stalingrad, another a huge multi-division Nazi invasion/raid on Honshu, and a third involved a Japanese invasion of the Persian Gulf.

Again, from what I remember, the only alternate history explanation provided was that FDR died before either being elected or taking office. There were no other explanations after that.

Of course Blueyes with his superior European education will be able to figure this all out for us. Being little more than morons who have fruitlessly examined this topic for years, on several sites, and in hundreds of threads, none of us here has been able to solve the problem. Thankfully one of our betters who has researched the issue has arrived and will soon set us all straight.

I can hardly wait.


P.S. I checked the site I mentioned and found a page dedicated to the game in question. There's a .pdf document written by the developers available for download there which supposedly covers the alternate history background behind the game. It contains a 7 page time line and single page bibliography. The time line begins with the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923 succeeding and also mentions FDR being assassinated in Chicago during the 1932 campaign. I won't post the document here, even though it is freely available for downloading, because I didn't write it.
 
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Just an FYI to all those sarcastic individuals here... I'm 35 and I am originally from Europe. Did all my education there and we all know how much stronger the education system is in Europe, compared to the U.S.

So, thanks for the "warm" welcome. And yes, I'm being... ahem... sarcastic.

The part of Europe you were educated in obviously covers modesty as part of the syllabus, I see :rolleyes:

And FYI, many of the posters here are from countries other than the USA. As you would have noticed if youd looked at the headers of their posts (I assume your wonderful EuroEducation also covered reading?)
 
alas, I was looking for the game itself (or at least for the rules), not for just a few images.


The site I mentioned has an active e-market. Post a request and I'll bet someone will have one for sale.

Whether you'll like the price they want is another question!
 
I would like to know the likelihood of any of the below events, since they're quite intriguing.

Peru and Chile look to Japan

Columbians want any help they can get taking the Panama canal.

A Sinarquista revolt in Mexico gives the U.S. the opportunity to enter the show, though.

We always hear about Peronist Argentina joining the Axis, what about the Latin American powers?

the Latin Fascists (French State, Fascist Italy, Franco's Spain) have taken Free French West Africa and consolidated North Africa.

Would this be militarily or logistically feasible?

and in Yellow Peril obsessed (though not without reason) Fortress Australasia.

An expansionist, paranoid Australia that leaves the Commonwealth because of perceived British betrayal? Fascinating. How powerful would it be?
 
alright, I'll give it an honest go.


You are gonna have to accept some caveats to at least flirt with plausability.


First is either completely removing hitler, or sufficiently change him to have him be nothing like OTL. That being done you have someone much more smart running things, this alone doubles the Nazi's chance of succeeding, although doubling one in a million is still just two in a million so there are limits.

You also need to go back pretty much to the very beginning in 1936 when the nazi's took power, or preferably get them to take power earlier to give them more time.

The Nazi party would have to be more well run with the main players competing less and cooperating more, which is possible with a smarter fuhrer.

Tone down the antisemitism to the point that the NAzi's aren't shooting themselves in the foot, maybe just deport the jews in stead of exterminating them.

Eliminate or change enigma and beef up abwehr and maybe the allies don't get to read the Nazi's mail before they do.

It is my opinion that the A-Bomb being invented when it was OTL was highly unlikely, and happened largely because the allies thought (wrongly) that there was a serious threat of Nazi nukes. Without the unique set of circumstances of OTL the first A-bomb might not be blown up until the late fifties or even as late as the sixties or seventies.

You can keep the US isolationist by having FDR not get elected or lose reelection after his first term, maybe even have the great depression be worse for the US, and cause some major internal strife which keeps the US out of the war. Also no FDR in office could mean that there are no embargoe's against Japan, and thus no reason for pearl harbor. Given enough time and without the US kicking their ass, the Japanese may just be able to conquer china, maybe, and also the Russians have to stop supporting the Chinese too, and maybe you get a Japanese controlled China.


The Russians could be severely weakened by having worse purges, combine that with somehow more success in the winter war(perhaps having it happen in the summer in stead) and the Red army may not learn its lessons in time to fight the Germans, also it might scare the poles enough to throw their lot in with Germany.

You could also have the western allies be lilly livered enough to allow the Germans to beat the russians and then have France get steamrolled by the German juggernaught.

If abwher is doing better they might be able to destabalize parts of the British empire and thus keep the Brits focused outside of Europe.


With these changes, and a good number of others, the Axis might, MIGHT be able to do as well as you suggest, but it would take them at least a decade, probably two or three to get that far though. Even then this is barely plausible, only a little bit.
 

Cook

Banned
It is my opinion that the A-Bomb being invented when it was OTL was highly unlikely, and happened largely because the allies thought (wrongly) that there was a serious threat of Nazi nukes.

That may be the case for the Manhattan Project Dan but Tube Alloys was already up and running.
 
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