Help Split the Netherlands

Basically, I'm trying a timeline with a harsher Treaty of Versailles that creates Clemenceau's infamous Rhineland buffer state (cue howls of physical pain). This makes the region look very ugly on maps, however, and I've come to the conclusion that the only way to prettify the region is to somehow detach North Brabant and Limburg from the Netherlands.

Of course, that brings up another snag: my virtual ignorance of Dutch history has left me with no knowledge of a way to plausibly make this happen. If anybody does know a plausible way, I'd appreciate your assistance.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
Basically, I'm trying a timeline with a harsher Treaty of Versailles that creates Clemenceau's infamous Rhineland buffer state (cue howls of physical pain). This makes the region look very ugly on maps, however, and I've come to the conclusion that the only way to prettify the region is to somehow detach North Brabant and Limburg from the Netherlands.

Of course, that brings up another snag: my virtual ignorance of Dutch history has left me with no knowledge of a way to plausibly make this happen. If anybody does know a plausible way, I'd appreciate your assistance.

Have the Allies support the Belgian claims on those parts. The Dutch will probably launch a pre-emptive strike which will be initially succesfull but smashed once the Allies get into play.
 
Why would the allies support Belgian claims on those parts? Why would the Dutch launch a preemptive strike against an army that is the veteran of four years of war?
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
Why would the allies support Belgian claims on those parts? Why would the Dutch launch a preemptive strike against an army that is the veteran of four years of war?


The Netherlands wasn't 100% neutral during WWI. There was alot of pro-german sympathies because of the Boer War and quite some trade made it to Germany through the Netherlands. Also, at the end of the War the Dutch government allowed a corps of Germans retreat though Limburg. Then when the War was over the German Emperor was given asylum at Doorn and the Dutch government refused to turn him over to the Allies.

From the Dutch point of view Limburg and Brabant are undefendeble. The best defense lines we have are our rivers. The rivers are north of Brabant. Therefor the Dutch war-plan was a pre-emptive strike. One would call the Belgian Army veteran, others would call it exhausted with the ethnic troubles always able to roar it's head.
 
Don't bother with the post-war war (although lord knows there were enough of them). Just have the Netherlands (however) join the Central Powers during the actual war itself. If they join after the about the third week of the Schlieffen plan, they won't even change the war much - small army, under the blockade, etc. Belgium can take away Limburg no problem under *Versailles.

EDIT: Crap, race to the sea is a problem. OK, have them join post-October.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
Don't bother with the post-war war (although lord knows there were enough of them). Just have the Netherlands (however) join the Central Powers during the actual war itself. If they join after the about the third week of the Schlieffen plan, they won't even change the war much - small army, under the blockade, etc. Belgium can take away Limburg no problem under *Versailles.

EDIT: Crap, race to the sea is a problem. OK, have them join post-October.


Boooooring! And far less plausible.
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
I can only assume the second half is sarcasm. ;)

...I like it, though, in that "Netherlands joins CPs" provides plenty of opportunities to butterfly in Death-Versailles.

Actually, the Allies were bloody pissed at the Netherlands. A Versailles that makes a Rhineland buffer-state is one that's going to want to smack the Netherlands. If the pre-emptive strike will succeed or even happen is a different matter.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Let me get this straight do you mean that Belgium get Brabant, Limburg, (maybe) Luxembourg and German westen Rhinland north of the Mosel. While France get AL and the Westen Rhineland south of the Mosel.

Or do you mean that the Westen Rhineland become a state in its own right?

The former would be quite interesting because Belgium would change completely national charater with 1 million extra Dutch speakers, and 5 million extra Germans to a population of 7,5 where around 4,5 million was Dutch speakers. But with the already unique identity of Belgium I don't think it's impossible, but German and Dutch nationalism is going to have interesting effects on Belgium.
 
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Let me get this straight do you mean that Belgium get Brabant, Limburg, (maybe) Luxembourg and German westen Rhinland north of the Mosel. While France get AL and the Westen Rhineland south of the Mosel.

Or do you mean that the Westen Rhineland become a state in its own right?

The former would be quite interesting because Belgium would change completely national charater with 1 million extra Dutch speakers, and 5 million extra Germans to a population of 7,5 where around 4,5 million was Dutch speakers. But with the already unique identity of Belgium I don't think it's impossible, but German and Dutch nationalism is going to have interesting effects on Belgium.
I had thought of a separate state in its own right, as I'm quite sure the French had no desire whatsoever to directly rule a couple million angry Germans when they could get the same benefits by carving out a puppet. However, the scenario you outline is interesting. I will give it some thought.
 
attachment.php


this map show Territorial claims made by extremist Belgium nationalist.
the Belgium goverment suspect that Luxenburg and Netherlands work with Germany during the War
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=98370
 
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