Help on my TL, Please read

[scholar]

Bump, Im being serious, I really need help

I'll do my best to oblige.

Saxons win Hastings

Depends on whether or not you want the victory to play out. If you want a complete and decisive defeat of all Norman invaders, including 'The Conqueror', you may well lead Normandy so weak that it can readily be conquered by a continental nobility.

Historically, England was prone to, and susceptible to, invasions up until this point. Hastings led to the last real conquest of the British Isles by a foreign invader. This conquest, however, completely redefined what it was to be English. Much of the English Language is made up of French and Latin words and its German more so in grammar than in vocabulary. Much of the nobility after this spoke French and France was the administrative language. The invasion brought a mass cultural exchange between the two, a change in both Normans and Saxons occurred.

So expect England to be much more German, but if you want you can make it fall to Norway, Scotland, or another faction trying to take advantage of a particularly bloody Hastings.

I am, however, incredibly weak when it comes to medieval English history, so take that with a grain of salt.

Khitai or the Liao Dynasty survives and the Khitai stay in Northen China than going west to become the Kara-Khitai

For how long would be my immediate question, dynasties last three hundred years at the high end of the scale. The Liao may have been less sinicized than the Jurchens or Qing would be, but they were still heavily influenced by Chinese culture and language. Keeping them in northern china will only make them more culturally chinese as time goes on. However, the Northern and Southern Dynastic Period left scars in OTL that would make it so that both Korea and Japan wouldn't even recognize northern Chinese as Chinese when they were invaded (sparring the south chinese, not the north) and the Mongols led to the establishment of two separate castes regarding the chinese group. If you wish for this to be permanent, at least beyond 1300 A.D., it is possible to divide the empire permanently (though most scholar-gentry within the two states will probably not be happy with this even centuries after reunification seems impossible).

The Rota system of the Rus Principalities collapse therefore independent Rus Principalities (Still working on this)

You don't even need that if the end is independent Rus Principalities.

I'll comment on the rest later as I have to go for now, but here's something that may help you.

 

[scholar]

Came back sooner than I thought.

Earlier creation of Serbian Kingdom

How do you want to go about this? 'Kingdom' was just a name, Serbian states existed before this. If you just want to give them a Kingly title for their state you only need to have them get it.

Basil II has a son

Well his line would be from his son, but there would be a question as to whether or not his son would be capable. If you want Basil II's son to be Basil II come again then the Byzantine Empire would be stronger for it, and much more capable of defending its borders against both western and eastern threats.

Yoshitsune, brother to Yoritomo of the Minamoto, survives but becomes kinda the opposite version that is seen in OTL (Thats all I can say to everyone right now, but theres more and its real complicated) and unites Japan after his brother's (The real first Shogun Yoritomo) death and defeats the Hojo Regents (Who were the real men in power in the Kamakura Shogunate and contributed to it's fall) and Japan becomes a strong centralized and powerful Shogunate up until the Sengoku Jidai

With such a POD its likely that Sengoku doesn't happen, and without the degrading of a central government its even more likely that the Daimyo themselves never come about. A strong centralized regime that lasts tends not to have a markedly decentralized feudal system. Further, since this is right on the coattails of the Heian period it is likely that what would become the unique Japanese culture would be radically different from OTL, since that was the time period where Chinese and Confucian Influence were at their greatest levels. Butterflies would remove Yoshitsune, but its not too big of a leap if we have a minor butterfly net. The problem is what happens next a strong unified Japan causes a dramatic shift from the 'Samurai/Daimyo' culture that would come with the decentralization of Japan. True, the military class was rising then but the true Samurai that we think of comes in the wake of the Onin War, something that can never happen given this.

 

[democracy101]

Possibly through a stalemate in the war with the Song. Second of all, maybe the Khitai want to prevent the Goryeo from encroaching influence across the Yalu. Either way, by this or the Jurchens are defeated, is a reason I guess?

Again, you'll have to come up with more concrete reasons. I'm guessing that it would be possible, but you'll have to go further than hypotheses.

Yes I understand what you mean, I dont know much about Korean history, so maybe if I can try and learn more I'll figure out

That's perfectly fine. Another problem with the time period in question is that although Balhae ceased to exist in 926, its inhabitants still remained in the area, and not only did they continuously conduct revolts against their rulers until around 1116, the people were considered to be a separate ethnicity until the Mongols took over Manchuria, and some of the Jurchen Jin rulers had Balhae consorts. Although all of the revolts were eventually suppressed, and probably never had the chance to become successful, Goryeo's possible incursions into the area could have ramifications in the future. However, as I said before, Goryeo would be very limited in their expansions.

Central Asia.....
All maps Ive seen say the same thing.

How about this:

Like most regions, there are several definitions of "Central Asia," depending on what aspect you're considering.

How to prevent the Khitai from collapsing??? Look its not solid evidence, but thats what Im trying to figure out, yes the Song and Goryeo want to take back Khitai territory, but HOW they will fail is the question. Maybe the Khitai manage to pull off a Kwiju (You must know that battle)

Here's a list of some of the states that were located in Central Asia:

Xiongnu (3rd century BC-89 AD)
Xianbei (93-234)
Rouran (330-555)
Gokturks (552-744)
Uyghur (744-848)
Liao (Khitan) (907-1125)
Jin (Jurchen) (1115-1234)
Mongol (Yuan) (1206-1368)
Northern Yuan (1368-1635)
Qing (Manchu) (1635-1911)

The last four were not limited to Central Asia, and the dates refer to when they existed, not when they took control over most of the region. In other words, none of them managed to rule over a significant amount of Central Asia for more than two centuries, mostly due to the conflicts within the area.

Also, when the Turks split between the eastern and western factions due to civil war, the Tang actually managed to attack and subjugate both states in 630, which was why I was saying that a civil war among the Khitan would encourage the Song and Goryeo to interfere.

Its not fantasy, its a different alternate world, like the other AH TLs on this site.....

Yes, but generally speaking, there are usually recognizable bits and pieces. However, we should focus more on the details at hand, so I won't get too much into this.

 

[scholar]

I don't think it's fate at all, as for almost a year, I have been the only one in this entire forum who has discussed matters in detail concerning Korean history from prehistoric times to the present, and you're one of very few who is able to thoroughly discuss matters concerning East Asia in general. This also makes it very difficult for me, as I have to come up with countless scenarios by myself by relying on primary/secondary sources in Korean, limited in scope, that other people generally can't consult, and people know much more about China and Japan than about Korea due to the relative lack of sources concerning the latter.

Anyway, Goryeo temporarily expanded into a very small portion of southeastern Manchuria, and later took control of Liaodong for about a decade or so. That being said, it never managed to retain either area for long. However, expanding into areas north of the Yalu and the Tumen Rivers would require not only soldiers to migrate north and establish fortifications, but also for farmers to head north in order to produce agricultural products for the long run. In other words, although a significant amount of resources would be spent on maintaining a stable force along the border for several decades, the individual areas would eventually become self-sufficient within 50-100 years or so. Also, the expansion would be gradual, not sudden, so starting around 1050 or so, it would probably take about 50-75 years to control significant amounts of eastern Manchuria, then another 50-100 or so to take over Liaodong once the Khitan begin to fall apart. In terms of the population figures, Goryeo probably had around 8-10 million after Balhae refugees streamed in from the north, and only about 1-3 million would be able to gradually establish themselves in the northern regions after about 100-150 years or so.

Also, the reason for Goryeo's possible ability to conduct these actions is precisely that the Jurchen probably won't be a coherent entity, which would make it very difficult for the Khitan to retain its holdings in Manchuria once it starts disintegrating. There is also no particular reason for Goryeo to not ally with the Song if the former controls portions of southern Manchuria, and seeks to take over Liaodong, and China wants to push the Khitan further north and/or west.

Perhaps, but I assume its slightly more interesting this way. Wouldn't you agree?

I assume this is referring to the same period of time as the advanced border fortifications? A decade is not so long and something tells me the cost of maintaining it in terms of manpower, funds, and external pressures was too much for it to be continued.

Every country in the world that shares a border with someone else has expanded their borders for brief periods of time before pulling back. Everything from costs, regime change, to military battles cause this. Border fluctuations in medieval time were as constant as the seasons and built on as sturdy a foundation as a sand castle is. I don't count a decade as long enough to consider this a serious attempt at expansion, and I am doubtful as to the extent of this decade of expansion. Again, the Liaodong Peninsula appears close, but its size is pretty big in relationship to Goryeo and pretty much an integral outlying territory of the northern Chinese states. I can't imagine that they would be too happy about this. Since we agree that it was a brief occurrence we don't need to spend much more time on this.

Your other point, the sending various armies and families north to basically develop Manchuria over many decades, even centuries, to integrate them into Goryeo seems... well, implausible. While it could happen, there are many things in history that are possible but we never readily entertain because of a bit of unlikelihood. Goryeo does not seem the kind of dedicated nation to establish military farming colonies in Manchuria and maintain them for a century in the hopes that it would become Korean eventually. Korea at this time bought into many of China's nastier habits in terms of foreign views. Their perception of the barbarism and uncivilized nature of the north naturally inhibited their desire for expansion, and with a more powerful Liao Dynasty the lands seem more fit for conquest by them than by the Koreans, and even then the nomadic raiders would make the colonization and agrarianization of the region akin to a special sort of hell.

For conclusion: To much cost, too little immediate gains, too vulnerable to invasion, and culturally undesirable. I haven't even gotten to how regime policy changes with the monarch, so what could be the focus of the nation for one King can be completely discarded by the next. Its possible, but I just don't think its plausible.

Next Paragraph, the scenario assumes that the Liao remains in the north of Chiina. Thus, even if the Jurchens never form a cohesive entity there's no reason to assume that manchuria would itself disintegrate into disorder and chaos. However, even assuming such a thing would occur we face another problem. A chaotic manchuria fractured and war torn is far more likely to devastate any of Goryeo's colonies than a single unified Jurchen tribe with its eyes focused on Liao's rich chinese holdings that's also paying tribute to Goryeo. When there's blood in the streets buy property, but don't plant seeds in a war zone. The alliance with China breeds interesting possibilities, but unless Goryeo is planning on becoming another Northern Dynasty one shouldn't hold too many hopes for effective control over the prefectures.

 

[Onyx]

I'll do my best to oblige.

Saxons win Hastings

Depends on whether or not you want the victory to play out. If you want a complete and decisive defeat of all Norman invaders, including 'The Conqueror', you may well lead Normandy so weak that it can readily be conquered by a continental nobility.

Historically, England was prone to, and susceptible to, invasions up until this point. Hastings led to the last real conquest of the British Isles by a foreign invader. This conquest, however, completely redefined what it was to be English. Much of the English Language is made up of French and Latin words and its German more so in grammar than in vocabulary. Much of the nobility after this spoke French and France was the administrative language. The invasion brought a mass cultural exchange between the two, a change in both Normans and Saxons occurred.

So expect England to be much more German, but if you want you can make it fall to Norway, Scotland, or another faction trying to take advantage of a particularly bloody Hastings.

Im still debating at this moment how its going to be played out since its a pretty damn huge POD. I wish for the English language to remain, but I have no idea how or if its even possible since it will remain much German. But as of now it stands right there

And yes Im also pretty weak in knowing English history

Khitai or the Liao Dynasty survives and the Khitai stay in Northen China than going west to become the Kara-Khitai

For how long would be my immediate question, dynasties last three hundred years at the high end of the scale. The Liao may have been less sinicized than the Jurchens or Qing would be, but they were still heavily influenced by Chinese culture and language. Keeping them in northern china will only make them more culturally chinese as time goes on. However, the Northern and Southern Dynastic Period left scars in OTL that would make it so that both Korea and Japan wouldn't even recognize northern Chinese as Chinese when they were invaded (sparring the south chinese, not the north) and the Mongols led to the establishment of two separate castes regarding the chinese group. If you wish for this to be permanent, at least beyond 1300 A.D., it is possible to divide the empire permanently (though most scholar-gentry within the two states will probably not be happy with this even centuries after reunification seems impossible).

I dont think anyone is hearing that the Liao are going to be replaced by another Khitai dynasty. I agree with everyone that dynasties dont last forever and last as merely as long as you said above, but rest assured the Khitai will survive, but with another dynasty.

The Rota system of the Rus Principalities collapse therefore independent Rus Principalities (Still working on this)

You don't even need that if the end is independent Rus Principalities.

I guess youre right there

Earlier creation of Serbian Kingdom

How do you want to go about this? 'Kingdom' was just a name, Serbian states existed before this. If you just want to give them a Kingly title for their state you only need to have them get it.

Basil II has a son

Well his line would be from his son, but there would be a question as to whether or not his son would be capable. If you want Basil II's son to be Basil II come again then the Byzantine Empire would be stronger for it, and much more capable of defending its borders against both western and eastern threats.

Who he will marry is the problem, probably I think he'll marry a Rus Princess

Yoshitsune, brother to Yoritomo of the Minamoto, survives but becomes kinda the opposite version that is seen in OTL (Thats all I can say to everyone right now, but theres more and its real complicated) and unites Japan after his brother's (The real first Shogun Yoritomo) death and defeats the Hojo Regents (Who were the real men in power in the Kamakura Shogunate and contributed to it's fall) and Japan becomes a strong centralized and powerful Shogunate up until the Sengoku Jidai

With such a POD its likely that Sengoku doesn't happen, and without the degrading of a central government its even more likely that the Daimyo themselves never come about. A strong centralized regime that lasts tends not to have a markedly decentralized feudal system. Further, since this is right on the coattails of the Heian period it is likely that what would become the unique Japanese culture would be radically different from OTL, since that was the time period where Chinese and Confucian Influence were at their greatest levels. Butterflies would remove Yoshitsune, but its not too big of a leap if we have a minor butterfly net. The problem is what happens next a strong unified Japan causes a dramatic shift from the 'Samurai/Daimyo' culture that would come with the decentralization of Japan. True, the military class was rising then but the true Samurai that we think of comes in the wake of the Onin War, something that can never happen given this.

No as I said, dynasties dont last forever, the Shogunate is still going to devolve into the Sengoku Period considering that a more centralized and powerful Shogunate after the Genpei would probably butterfly the weakening Kamakura into devolving into the more weakened Ashikaga Shogunate after the Kemmu Restoration. But its only a matter of time before the Samurai and rising Daimyo class begin to take over
I have my ideas from pre-Genpei War to 1200, just havent figured out how Im going to play out the Shogunate afterwards

 

[scholar]

Im still debating at this moment how its going to be played out since its a pretty damn huge POD. I wish for the English language to remain, but I have no idea how or if its even possible since it will remain much German. But as of now it stands right there

And yes Im also pretty weak in knowing English history

Well, English will still be called that in England. England didn't become Normandy after its conquest, nor was it called France when they tried to assert a claim on the French crown. Its just the vocabulary would change. In fact, all languages will change. Its just this is a particularly unique case as English is a melting pot of European languages.

I dont think anyone is hearing that the Liao are going to be replaced by another Khitai dynasty. I agree with everyone that dynasties dont last forever and last as merely as long as you said above, but rest assured the Khitai will survive, but with another dynasty.

Fair enough, but as time goes on the Khitai will become more chinese in terms of culture, while the chinese in the north will become more distant from the southern branch.

Who he will marry is the problem, probably I think he'll marry a Rus Princess

Its more likely he will marry someone from within the Byzantines than without, and more likely it will be from a close ally rather than a distant coreligionist.

No as I said, dynasties dont last forever, the Shogunate is still going to devolve into the Sengoku Period considering that a more centralized and powerful Shogunate after the Genpei would probably butterfly the weakening Kamakura into devolving into the more weakened Ashikaga Shogunate after the Kemmu Restoration. But its only a matter of time before the Samurai and rising Daimyo class begin to take over
I have my ideas from pre-Genpei War to 1200, just havent figured out how Im going to play out the Shogunate afterwards

This part just reads with the header: The Death of a Thousand Butterflies. The Ashikaga are in the 14th century, your POD in the 11th. The Sengoku even more so, starting in the 15th century.

The rise of the Daimyo came from the fall of the Shugo, a land orientated aristocracy that came about with the Minamoto. Rather, if you ensure that the Capetian Dynasty doesn't die out in the main line you shouldn't expect that Napoleon will still become Emperor, though thats a more extreme example.

 

[democracy101]

I assume this is referring to the same period of time as the advanced border fortifications? A decade is not so long and something tells me the cost of maintaining it in terms of manpower, funds, and external pressures was too much for it to be continued.

Every country in the world that shares a border with someone else has expanded their borders for brief periods of time before pulling back. Everything from costs, regime change, to military battles cause this. Border fluctuations in medieval time were as constant as the seasons and built on as sturdy a foundation as a sand castle is. I don't count a decade as long enough to consider this a serious attempt at expansion, and I am doubtful as to the extent of this decade of expansion. Again, the Liaodong Peninsula appears close, but its size is pretty big in relationship to Goryeo and pretty much an integral outlying territory of the northern Chinese states. I can't imagine that they would be too happy about this. Since we agree that it was a brief occurrence we don't need to spend much more time on this.

The nine fortresses established in 1108 after the conflict with the Jurchen were located along the northeastern coast of the peninsula, along with a few in southeast Manchuria. The expansion into Liaodong occurred around 1360-70, and although a second attempt occurred in 1388, the general who was in charge decided to turn back, and established a new dynasty, which caused the claims to be put on hold. The temporary expansions were eventually pushed back due to political strife within Goryeo, and while I certainly understand that they were limited in scope, different circumstances could potentially lead to different results.

In terms of the size, just taking the coastal regions of Liaodong doesn't seem to be that much a stretch, and at most, the smaller peninsula only seems to be 1/5 or so of the larger one. In comparison, you have to realize that from about 1258-1356, the northern border was initially located somewhere between what is now Pyongyang and Seoul, as the Mongols temporarily occupied the northern regions. However, after Gongmin came to power, he ordered his generals to push the border further north and expel the Mongols, effectively doubling the size of Goryeo after taking over Liaodong and the areas around the Tumen River. Although Liaodong was lost after 1380, the fact that Goryeo managed to retain the northeastern borders during the chaos, with incidents such as the Red Turban Rebellion, which actually temporarily seized Gaegyong, the capital, suggests that with adequate preparations, it would be possible for the state to expand further into Manchuria and Liaodong with different conditions.

Your other point, the sending various armies and families north to basically develop Manchuria over many decades, even centuries, to integrate them into Goryeo seems... well, implausible. While it could happen, there are many things in history that are possible but we never readily entertain because of a bit of unlikelihood. Goryeo does not seem the kind of dedicated nation to establish military farming colonies in Manchuria and maintain them for a century in the hopes that it would become Korean eventually. Korea at this time bought into many of China's nastier habits in terms of foreign views. Their perception of the barbarism and uncivilized nature of the north naturally inhibited their desire for expansion, and with a more powerful Liao Dynasty the lands seem more fit for conquest by them than by the Koreans, and even then the nomadic raiders would make the colonization and agrarianization of the region akin to a special sort of hell.

For conclusion: To much cost, too little immediate gains, too vulnerable to invasion, and culturally undesirable. I haven't even gotten to how regime policy changes with the monarch, so what could be the focus of the nation for one King can be completely discarded by the next. Its possible, but I just don't think its plausible.

See above. The northern areas of the Korean peninsula and the southern parts of Manchuria were generally sparsely populated, and if Goryeo thinks that there will be a security threat if the borders were not extended further north, as subjugating the hostile tribes could quell the constant raids, it's possible that they could do so. "Unified" Silla's northern borders were around Pyongyang, but soon after Goryeo reunified the peninsula, it pushed it further north, until it eventually reached the Yalu by 1000. Although the border shifted both north and south for about three centuries, and was temporarily pushed south of Pyongyang under Mongol influence, the border was soon moved to the Yalu and Tumen Rivers around 1370-80, and was finally consolidated after Sejong sent some generals to the north in 1433.

Next Paragraph, the scenario assumes that the Liao remains in the north of Chiina. Thus, even if the Jurchens never form a cohesive entity there's no reason to assume that manchuria would itself disintegrate into disorder and chaos. However, even assuming such a thing would occur we face another problem. A chaotic manchuria fractured and war torn is far more likely to devastate any of Goryeo's colonies than a single unified Jurchen tribe with its eyes focused on Liao's rich chinese holdings that's also paying tribute to Goryeo. When there's blood in the streets buy property, but don't plant seeds in a war zone. The alliance with China breeds interesting possibilities, but unless Goryeo is planning on becoming another Northern Dynasty one shouldn't hold too many hopes for effective control over the prefectures.

Again, see above for what occurred during Gongmin's rule. The Red Turban Rebellion, which devastated Goryeo, certainly did not deter it from pushing the border north to the vicinity of the Tumen River, and there is no reason to assume that Goryeo would refuse to push the border north if the Liao started disintegrating. Also, see below:

Another problem with the time period in question is that although Balhae ceased to exist in 926, its inhabitants still remained in the area, and not only did they continuously conduct revolts against their rulers until around 1116, the people were considered to be a separate ethnicity until the Mongols took over Manchuria, and some of the Jurchen Jin rulers had Balhae consorts. Although all of the revolts were eventually suppressed, and probably never had the chance to become successful, Goryeo's possible incursions into the area could have ramifications in the future. However, as I said before, Goryeo would be very limited in their expansions.

 

[scholar]

The nine fortresses established in 1108 after the conflict with the Jurchen were located along the northeastern coast of the peninsula, along with a few in southeast Manchuria. The expansion into Liaodong occurred around 1360-70, and although a second attempt occurred in 1388, the general who was in charge decided to turn back, and established a new dynasty, which caused the claims to be put on hold. The temporary expansions were eventually pushed back due to political strife within Goryeo, and while I certainly understand that they were limited in scope, different circumstances could potentially lead to different results.

The rapid decline of the Mongol Empire allowed for such an expansion, said factors wouldn't exist in this scenario if the Liao Dynasty remains strong and stable in the north. Its very existence most likely butterflies away the Mongols, and if that doesn't the precondition of it remaining most certainly deflects most of the damage.

In terms of the size, just taking the coastal regions of Liaodong doesn't seem to be that much a stretch, and at most, the smaller peninsula only seems to be 1/5 or so of the larger one. In comparison, you have to realize that from about 1258-1356, the northern border was initially located somewhere between what is now Pyongyang and Seoul, as the Mongols temporarily occupied the northern regions. However, after Gongmin came to power, he ordered his generals to push the border further north and expel the Mongols, effectively doubling the size of Goryeo after taking over Liaodong and the areas around the Tumen River. Although Liaodong was lost after 1380, the fact that Goryeo managed to retain the northeastern borders during the chaos, with incidents such as the Red Turban Rebellion, which actually temporarily seized Gaegyong, the capital, suggests that with adequate preparations, it would be possible for the state to expand further into Manchuria and Liaodong with different conditions.

The Tyumen River was basically the border of Korea, and this was a rapid reclamation of older territories in the wake of the Mongols. Liaodong was only held as long as they could keep it before the Chinese marched in to take it.

While it does suggest the possibility of further expansion one has to take into consideration the sheer mess the Mongols made of things in their decline, basically giving birth to the entire geo-political situation in Asia. Assuming a strong Liao Dynasty and a butterflied Mongol period we just don't see this kind of scenario.

See above. The northern areas of the Korean peninsula and the southern parts of Manchuria were generally sparsely populated, and if Goryeo thinks that there will be a security threat if the borders were not extended further north, as subjugating the hostile tribes could quell the constant raids, it's possible that they could do so. "Unified" Silla's northern borders were around Pyongyang, but soon after Goryeo reunified the peninsula, it pushed it further north, until it eventually reached the Yalu by 1000. Although the border shifted both north and south for about three centuries, and was temporarily pushed south of Pyongyang under Mongol influence, the border was soon moved to the Yalu and Tumen Rivers around 1370-80, and was finally consolidated after Sejong sent some generals to the north in 1433.

The Yalu and Tumen rivers marks the boundary of Korean expansionism after the fall of Gorguryeo and Balhae, saying the border was around there doesn't convince me (and probably wouldn't convince anyone else) that this meant they were likely to expand.

That, and I think you are sidestepping the issue of a collective military farming colonization being an impractical belief and expectation.

Again, see above for what occurred during Gongmin's rule. The Red Turban Rebellion, which devastated Goryeo, certainly did not deter it from pushing the border north to the vicinity of the Tumen River, and there is no reason to assume that Goryeo would refuse to push the border north if the Liao started disintegrating. Also, see below:

Three things worth nothing:

First off, for the rivers, here's where they are for someone who is unversed in the geography of the region:

Yalu River

Tumen River

Basically, those rivers establish the northern frontier of Korea. Not only that, but they are useful borders being good enough to ward off most minor nomadic threats.

Second, your main argument that I have gleamed is a continual reference towards how the Goryeo expanded in the wake of the collapse of the Mongol Empire, or rather the Yuan, which is something that's not analogous to anything that could come from the wake of the Liao Dynasty coming to a violent end. In particular, much of that expansion was reclamation as well as expansion into areas glad to be free from the Mongols. For an apparent analogy, the vast death and starvation that was occurring behind Soviet Lines that devastated the country didn't stop them from marching all the way to Berlin.

Third, this is based on the assertion that the Liao will collapse and Manchuria will be in a volatile enough situation to allow for the Goryeo to expand into it provided they prepared for it in advance. (as well as seeing a threat that helps catapult this decision) This one has some problems, notably that the Liao won't be collapsing and there's little evidence to support that Manchuria will collapse if the Liao doesn't.

---

As for the Balhae revolts, which I would more call heavily Korean influenced natives more so than actual Koreans since modern revisionism in this regard has turned me off to much of it, I have to beg the question: Why didn't Goryeo help in OTL? If they did what prevented them from being successful? You yourself claimed that this was a lightly populated region that were filled with the decendents of an older Korean state that revolted against their rulers, and that since Goryeo considered itself the successor to Goguryeo that they were looking to reclaim Goguryeo lands, so it would seem a shoe-in for a successful expansion. Something that didn't happen as far as I'm aware. Because of this I have to know more before I can make a judgment call because it seems as though Manchurian Expansion was handed to Korea on a silver platter, one they promptly refused.

Which brings up that cultural resistance to expansion that I brought up, but for now I just want to know why something didn't happen when all the factors presented makes it seem more likely to happen and be successful than over 90% of military campaigns.

 

[democracy101]

The rapid decline of the Mongol Empire allowed for such an expansion, said factors wouldn't exist in this scenario if the Liao Dynasty remains strong and stable in the north. Its very existence most likely butterflies away the Mongols, and if that doesn't the precondition of it remaining most certainly deflects most of the damage.

Yes, but Onyx was talking about a civil war, which would destabilize the Khitan and prevent them from effectively holding control of some of their frontier territories, while a Song-Goryeo alliance would probably spell doom for the Liao. He's still working on the specifics, so we'll just have to wait.

The Tyumen River was basically the border of Korea, and this was a rapid reclamation of older territories in the wake of the Mongols. Liaodong was only held as long as they could keep it before the Chinese marched in to take it.

While it does suggest the possibility of further expansion one has to take into consideration the sheer mess the Mongols made of things in their decline, basically giving birth to the entire geo-political situation in Asia. Assuming a strong Liao Dynasty and a butterflied Mongol period we just don't see this kind of scenario.

The Yalu and Tumen rivers marks the boundary of Korean expansionism after the fall of Gorguryeo and Balhae, saying the border was around there doesn't convince me (and probably wouldn't convince anyone else) that this meant they were likely to expand.

That, and I think you are sidestepping the issue of a collective military farming colonization being an impractical belief and expectation.

Three things worth nothing:

First off, for the rivers, here's where they are for someone who is unversed in the geography of the region:

Yalu River

Tumen River

Basically, those rivers establish the northern frontier of Korea. Not only that, but they are useful borders being good enough to ward off most minor nomadic threats.

I honestly have no idea where you're getting your sources from. The northern border was not formalized until 1433, as I stated before.

I tried to make the maps smaller, but it looks like their scale is automatically fixed.

Silla/Balhae (830)

Goryeo (1108)

Goryeo (1270)

Goryeo (1391)

Joseon (1449)

I hope that clears things up.

Second, your main argument that I have gleamed is a continual reference towards how the Goryeo expanded in the wake of the collapse of the Mongol Empire, or rather the Yuan, which is something that's not analogous to anything that could come from the wake of the Liao Dynasty coming to a violent end. In particular, much of that expansion was reclamation as well as expansion into areas glad to be free from the Mongols. For an apparent analogy, the vast death and starvation that was occurring behind Soviet Lines that devastated the country didn't stop them from marching all the way to Berlin.

Third, this is based on the assertion that the Liao will collapse and Manchuria will be in a volatile enough situation to allow for the Goryeo to expand into it provided they prepared for it in advance. (as well as seeing a threat that helps catapult this decision) This one has some problems, notably that the Liao won't be collapsing and there's little evidence to support that Manchuria will collapse if the Liao doesn't.

---

As for the Balhae revolts, which I would more call heavily Korean influenced natives more so than actual Koreans since modern revisionism in this regard has turned me off to much of it, I have to beg the question: Why didn't Goryeo help in OTL? If they did what prevented them from being successful? You yourself claimed that this was a lightly populated region that were filled with the decendents of an older Korean state that revolted against their rulers, and that since Goryeo considered itself the successor to Goguryeo that they were looking to reclaim Goguryeo lands, so it would seem a shoe-in for a successful expansion. Something that didn't happen as far as I'm aware. Because of this I have to know more before I can make a judgment call because it seems as though Manchurian Expansion was handed to Korea on a silver platter, one they promptly refused.

Which brings up that cultural resistance to expansion that I brought up, but for now I just want to know why something didn't happen when all the factors presented makes it seem more likely to happen and be successful than over 90% of military campaigns.

Look over the maps above, and in terms of the situation after the collapse of the Mongols/Liao, we can only make educated guesses until Onyx manages to come up with the specifics. Regarding Balhae, as you can see from the above second map, Goryeo never managed to significantly expand into former Balhae territory, so they were unable to come into significant contact with their northern neighbors in order to aid them.

As I repeatedly stated, even if Goryeo managed to expand further north, it would not be significantly bigger than the areas that both the North and the South control today, but it would be enough for further butterflies to occur, and for diplomacy to be different from IOTL.

 

[scholar]

Yes, but Onyx was talking about a civil war, which would destabilize the Khitan and prevent them from effectively holding control of some of their frontier territories, while a Song-Goryeo alliance would probably spell doom for the Liao. He's still working on the specifics, so we'll just have to wait.

The Liao was already a comparatively weak northern dynasty, making them weaker just asks for it to be dissolved.

I honestly have no idea where you're getting your sources from. The northern border was not formalized until 1433, as I stated before.

I was under the impression that the Yalu and Tumen rivers made up the major border for Korean cultural influence since the Tang and that Korean states regularly made expeditions up to them since the fall of Balhae. A mistaken one it seems.

Look over the maps above, and in terms of the situation after the collapse of the Mongols/Liao, we can only make educated guesses until Onyx manages to come up with the specifics. Regarding Balhae, as you can see from the above second map, Goryeo never managed to significantly expand into former Balhae territory, so they were unable to come into significant contact with their northern neighbors in order to aid them.

As I repeatedly stated, even if Goryeo managed to expand further north, it would not be significantly bigger than the areas that both the North and the South control today, but it would be enough for further butterflies to occur, and for diplomacy to be different from IOTL.

The root of my issue was the expansion of Goryeo into Manchuria and Liaodong with the presence of a strong Liao Dynasty. However, I had no issue with expansion to the Yalu and Tumen rivers or even brief expansion outside of that. Frankly I was surprised when you mentioned the two rivers as the effective northern border thinking that it didn't really help your argument at all. That century of colonization thing also scared me thinking you were much too far north. So I missed your point, and I apologize for that.

The notion of Korean Expansionism to the Yalu and Tumen rivers is not a far fetched one, however such expansion was intrinsically tied to the rapid expansion of the Jurchens, subsequent subjugation of Goryeo and the Jurchens by the Mongols, and the rapid collapse of the Yuan Dynasty. None of which is likely to happen in this situation, rather the Goryeo Dynasty is going to expand by means of alliance with the Song and perhaps by chaos caused by the fall of the Jurchens into chaos in your suggestions. This may or may not produce similar results, but I'm left wondering.

Basically this civil war needs more fleshing out, and the Jurchens are an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[democracy101]

The Liao was already a comparatively weak northern dynasty, making them weaker just asks for it to be dissolved.

Which is exactly my problem. The fact that the Jurchen were initially heavily outnumbered when they overthrew the Khitan suggests that the latter was on the brink of collapse by the early 12th century. Although I can possibly see another nomadic state instead of the Jurchen replacing the Liao, which would cause completely different butterflies from either TTL or OTL, I honestly think that it will be almost impossible for the state to remain independent after 1150 or so, as the civil war will greatly weaken the state.

I was under the impression that the Yalu and Tumen rivers made up the major border for Korean cultural influence since the Tang and that Korean states regularly made expeditions up to them since the fall of Balhae. A mistaken one it seems.

The root of my issue was the expansion of Goryeo into Manchuria and Liaodong with the presence of a strong Liao Dynasty. However, I had no issue with expansion to the Yalu and Tumen rivers or even brief expansion outside of that. Frankly I was surprised when you mentioned the two rivers as the effective northern border thinking that it didn't really help your argument at all. That century of colonization thing also scared me thinking you were much too far north. So I missed your point, and I apologize for that.

The notion of Korean Expansionism to the Yalu and Tumen rivers is not a far fetched one, however such expansion was intrinsically tied to the rapid expansion of the Jurchens, subsequent subjugation of Goryeo and the Jurchens by the Mongols, and the rapid collapse of the Yuan Dynasty. None of which is likely to happen in this situation, rather the Goryeo Dynasty is going to expand by means of alliance with the Song and perhaps by chaos caused by the fall of the Jurchens into chaos in your suggestions. This may or may not produce similar results, but I'm left wondering.

Basically this civil war needs more fleshing out, and the Jurchens are an issue that needs to be addressed.

Well, my point was that even with constant raids from the north after the disintegration of the situation in China, and coastal raids from the wokou, Goryeo was still able to recover the prefectures that the Mongols had temporarily established, and even expanded into the most mountainous areas of the Korean peninsula, although it ultimately lost Liaodong. My reasoning was that if Goryeo retained more territory, and was determined to prevent further raids from the north after the Liao was thrown into chaos, then it would be able to seize some parts of Liaodong, possibly after it expanded into portions of southeast Manchuria, although control will be generally limited.

However, all of our assumptions are only based on speculation, and we'll need to actually understand the specifics in order to make more definitive statements, as you said.

 

[Onyx]

I have a new idea as well if anyone can read this:
Since Im having the Cumans/Kypchaks convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, Im thinking that one of them rejects the other's decision to convert, and migrate out of the Steppes to the east, preferebly to Central Asia, and replace the Kara-Khanids.
I wouldnt say who, because I can't find a difference between them or there preference in there religion in Islam or Christianity, any help would be necessary on this

 

[Grouchio]

I think I can instead find a way to extend the lifespan of the Liao Dynasty itself. It involves Emperor Shengzong having an extra (PoD) son (I'll call him Yelu Kangxu, born c. 1018 to Ji Dian), being brought up close to his father. After his father's death his elder brother becomes Emperor Xingzong in 1031, and soon becomes hated among his subjects for his constant lavishness and corruption of the government, as well as for waging tiresome wars against Song China and raising taxes. Meanwhile Yelu Kangxu manages to discover an attempted coup by Xingzong's mother Nuou Jin to overthrow Dowager Empress Ji Dian from power and exterminate her family, and thus manages to kill her instead with his assassins. Xingzong luckily detested his biological mother, and thus never foresees his own downfall when Kangxu persuade the disgruntled nobles to help overthrow him for being such a terrible ruler. In 1035 Kangxu and his allied nobles stormed the palace in the midst of night and assassinate Xingzong in his sleep. Yelu Kangxu then takes up the throne as Emperor Daizong, a practical born-scholar and intellectual. Realizing that in order to preserve the balance and power of the Khitan Empire that he must bring primogeniture into law, and also realizing the heavy repercussions he would face from the Nobles, he decided to invite all the high-ranking nobles of his Empire to dinner one night, many of whom helped him onto the Liao Throne, and ordered his guards to slit their throats while they were intoxicated, and then proceeded to put their heads on stakes for public viewing, declaring that no one dare challenge his dynasty's rule. The terrified remaining nobles bow down to pressure, and primogeniture is passed, albeit with a compromise; the ruling Emperor would be able to choose the best candidate out of all his sons (regardless of birth) to succeed him, and was to be accepted as the new Emperor on pain of death. Daizong proceeds to lower the taxes to before Xingzong, increases the size and efficiency of his armies, continues his father's policies of Feudal reform (to keep any resentful peasants like Jurchens in place), continues to encourage farming and trading among the Khitai, enters warm relations with the newly founded Xi Xia Dynasty, securing the peace and prosperity of the Liao Dynasty under his rule and that of his next few successors.

With the continuously great reigns of Shengzong, Daizong, and his successor Emperor Mingzong (Yelu Gaoji b. 1039 r. 1072 - 1105) who like his father would continue the balance of power within the empire, realize the importance of the loyalty of the Jurchens to the state, marries a Jurchen Noblewomen and makes her Empress, thus increasing his popularity with the Jurchens, who are then recommended to intermarry with the Khitans and Han Chinese whilst keeping most elements of their culture and fusing them with the Chinese Culture, over several generations. Then comes in the second PoD; Wang Anshi, that great reformist comes fleeing into exile from Song China in 1075 (instead of getting imprisoned and later executed), seeking asylum with the court of Mingzong, the 'Buddhist Scholar Emperor of the North.' His ideas of socioeconomic reforms include expanding the use of money, broke up private monopolies and introduced some forms of government regulation and social welfare. In military affairs, he supports the use of local militias; and in education and government, he would expand the examination system and try to suppress nepotism. Whether any of his reforms are accepted in Khitai or not is up to you, but by no doubt the Khitai would gain an agricultural boom due to this, with thousands of terraces built, fishing, sailing and trading increased, and a population boom included (exact numbers beyond me right now.) At this rate the Khitai would become as advanced and powerful as the Song by 1200!

Anyways, I would then quickly summarize the steady, mostly peaceful reigns of the next few Emperors, the mostly successful maintenance of the Empire, the construction of several public works and Buddhist Temples, and the gradual expansion to the north among the Amur River. And then bam! We're in 1175 or so and we learn how, under an ambitious Emperor (whose name I haven't decided on yet) launches a massive invasion of the Khamag Mongols and some of their neighbors (along with the use of diplomacy), and how Genghis Khan and his kin are taken out of the annals of History. As for the end of the Liao dynasty, simply let the bloodline die out after the death of the Ambitious Emperor's son. Then a new dynasty can take afoot, may it be Khitai, Tangut, or Jurchen in ethnicity.

 

[democracy101]

With the continuously great reigns of Shengzong, Daizong, and his successor Emperor Mingzong (Yelu Gaoji b. 1039 r. 1072 - 1105) who like his father would continue the balance of power within the empire, realize the importance of the loyalty of the Jurchens to the state, marries a Jurchen Noblewomen and makes her Empress, thus increasing his popularity with the Jurchens, who are then recommended to intermarry with the Khitans and Han Chinese whilst keeping most elements of their culture and fusing them with the Chinese Culture, over several generations.

This process would take decades, if not closer to a century, during which it would probably be more likely for the Khitan to break up, or be taken over entirely by another nomadic entity, before the Jurchen are entirely assimilated. In comparison, other Central Asian empires, most notably that of the Mongols, ruled over multiple ethnicities, and occasionally used individuals from different ethnic groups for administration, but the vast majority of them never assimilated into the ruling ethnic group.

Then comes in the second PoD; Wang Anshi, that great reformist comes fleeing into exile from Song China in 1075 (instead of getting imprisoned and later executed), seeking asylum with the court of Mingzong, the 'Buddhist Scholar Emperor of the North.' His ideas of socioeconomic reforms include expanding the use of money, broke up private monopolies and introduced some forms of government regulation and social welfare. In military affairs, he supports the use of local militias; and in education and government, he would expand the examination system and try to suppress nepotism. Whether any of his reforms are accepted in Khitai or not is up to you, but by no doubt the Khitai would gain an agricultural boom due to this, with thousands of terraces built, fishing, sailing and trading increased, and a population boom included (exact numbers beyond me right now.) At this rate the Khitai would become as advanced and powerful as the Song by 1200!

I'm not exactly sure exactly why or how this would occur. The vast majority of the territory that the Liao controlled was composed of the desert or steppe, which isn't exactly conducive to agriculture. Meanwhile, Western Manchuria was generally a plain that could have been used for planting crops, and Liaodong was a coastal region, while Eastern Manchuria was mostly forest. However, if the Khitan decided to migrate in mass numbers to Manchuria, they would lose control of Central Asia due to the sparse population, not to mention that it would take generations to assimilate the tribes in the region before large settlements could be established.

Also, if the agricultural process is accelerated, it's more likely that desertification would eventually spread into Manchuria as well, which would be far from ideal. In comparison, considering that most of the Xianbei tribes, who were ancestors of the Khitan, assimilated into Chinese society after several generations, it's highly likely that massive settlements would probably erase the Khitan as a separate entity altogether. Ports in Liaodong might somewhat help, but this would also require completely changing the Khitan lifestyle to a settled and maritime one, and would probably not have much of an impact, as the coastline would be much shorter than that of the Song or Goryeo.

 

[Grouchio]

I would like to point this tidbit out here:

As nomadic people, the Khitans originally engaged in stock-breeding, fishing, and hunting. Looting southern Chinese villages and towns, as well as neighbor tribes, was also a helpful source of slaves, Chinese handcraft, and food, especially in famine times. Under the influence of the neighboring China, and following the administrative need for a sedentary administration, the Khitans began to engage in farming, crop cultivation and the building of cities. Different from the Chinese and Balhae farmers, who cultivated wheat and sorghum millet, the Khitan farmers especially cultivated panicled millet. The ruling class of the Liao Dynasty still undertook hunting campaigns in late summer in the tradition of their ancestors. After the fall of the Liao dynasty, the Khitans returned to a more nomadic life.

I was saying that it would take several decades to a few centuries for Khitai and Chinese cultures to fuse into a unique North Asian style. Given my ideas on the Khitai, this can surely be implemented. Don't forget this either:

The status of women in the Liao Dynasty varied greatly, with the Khitan Liao having much a more egalitarian view towards women than the Han Chinese did. Han Chinese living under the Liao Dynasty were not forced to adopt Khitan practices, and while some Han Chinese did, many did not.[74]

Unlike Han society, which had a strict separation of responsibilities along gender lines, and placed women in a very subservient role to men, the Khitan women of the Liao Dynasty performed many of the same functions that the Khitan men did.[75] Khitan women were taught how to hunt, and managed family herds, flocks, finances, and property when their husbands were at war.[75][76][77] Upper class women were able to hold governmental and military posts.[77]

The sexual freedoms of Liao also stood in stark contrast from those of the Han Chinese. Women from the upper Liao classes, like those of the Han Chinese upper classes, had arranged marriages, in some cases for political purposes.[78][79] However women from the lower classes of the Liao did not have arranged marriages, and would attract suitors by singing and dancing in the streets. The songs served as self-advertisements, with the women telling of their beauty, familial status, and domestic skills. Virginity was not a requirement for marriage among the Liao, and many Liao women were sexually promiscuous before marriage, which stood in sharp contrast from the beliefs of the Han Chinese.[78] Khitan women had the right to divorce their husbands, and were able to remarry after being divorced.[77]
Abduction of marriage age women was common during the Liao Dynasty. Khitans men of all social classes participated in the activity, and the abductees were both Khitan and Han. In some cases, this was a step in the courtship process, where the woman would agree to the abduction and the resulting sexual intercourse, then the abductor and abductee would return to the woman's home to announce their intention to marry. This process was known as baimen ([FONT=&quot]拜門[/FONT]). Other times, the abduction would be non-consensual and would result in a rape.

In Liao custom betrothal was seen as being equally serious to, if not more serious than, marriage itself, and was difficult to annul. The groom would pledge to work for three years for the bride's family, pay a bride price, and lavish the bride's family with gifts. After the three years were up, the groom would be allowed to take the bride back to his home, and the bride would usually cut off all ties with her family.[81]

Khitan marriage practices differed from those of the Han Chinese in several ways. Men from the elite classes tended to marry women from the generation their senior. While this did not necessarily mean that there would be a large gap in ages between husband and wife, it was often the case. Among the ruling Yelü clan, the average age that boys married was sixteen, while the average age that girls married was between sixteen and twenty-two. Although rare, ages as young as twelve were recorded, for both boys and girls.[82] A special variety of polygamy known as sororate, in which a man would marry two or more women who were sisters, was practiced among the Liao elite.[77][83] Polygamy was not restricted only to sororate, with some men having three or more wives, only some of whom were sisters. Sororate continued throughout the length of the Liao Dynasty, despite laws banning the practice.[83] Over the course of the dynasty, the Liao elite moved away from polygamy and towards the Han Chinese system of having one wife and one or more concubines.[83] This was done largely to smooth over the process of inheritance.[77]

 

[democracy101]

I was saying that it would take several decades to a few centuries for Khitai and Chinese cultures to fuse into a unique North Asian style. Given my ideas on the Khitai, this can surely be implemented. Don't forget this either:

And my point was that given the long-term situation IOTL, it would be much more likely for the Khitan to be assimilated into Chinese culture given that time range, as the Xianbei were their ancestors, and essentially had a similar culture, yet were assimilated into Chinese culture within a few generations after individual tribes founded separate dynasties and settled down. Otherwise, due to the various tribes in Central Asia, another ethnic group, which does not necessarily have to be the Jurchen, Tangut, or the Mongols, would probably take over the Khitan, as no state in that region survived for longer than two centuries, which I stated earlier on this page in post 23.

Also, the issue is that in order for the Liao to establish mass settlements, widespread immigration of millions from other states, such as the Song and Goryeo, would have to be actively encouraged for long periods of time, as the Khitan probably numbered no more than several million. This process would also probably cause the Khitan to adopt more Chinese and Korean customs over time, rather than the other way around.

 

[Grouchio]

And my point was that given the long-term situation IOTL, it would be much more likely for the Khitan to be assimilated into Chinese culture given that time range, as the Xianbei were their ancestors, and essentially had a similar culture, yet were assimilated into Chinese culture within a few generations after individual tribes founded separate dynasties and settled down. Otherwise, due to the various tribes in Central Asia, another ethnic group, which does not necessarily have to be the Jurchen, Tangut, or the Mongols, would probably take over the Khitan, as no state in that region survived for longer than two centuries, which I stated earlier on this page in post 23.

Also, the issue is that in order for the Liao to establish mass settlements, widespread immigration of millions from other states, such as the Song and Goryeo, would have to be actively encouraged for long periods of time, as the Khitan probably numbered no more than several million. This process would also probably cause the Khitan to adopt more Chinese and Korean customs over time, rather than the other way around.

And that's fine. The Khitai, the Jurchens and the Han Chinese will gradually be assimilated into a cultural fusion (or melting pot) consisting of elements of Chinese, Khitai and Jurchen nature, according to Oryx's plan. Agriculture will remain sedentary in the East, and pastoral in the west. Architecture will remain similar to Chinese but will develop a northern flavor and style to them as time goes on. The arts will be heavily influenced from Chinese and Korean art as expected, and Religion will remain mainly Buddhist and Daoist. And as shown above, my PoD makes it possible for the Liao dynasty to survive another century.

But enough about that. The main goal of this Timeline is a series of simultaneous PoDs in Eurasia in the 11th century. This should be the list PoDs as classified by date chronologically:

1. Basil II decides to marry for the good of the Empire after reminiscing about a dream he had (The he did not OTL). He has a son around 1000 AD (name not yet decided on), who is very well educated in military and administrative teachings from Imperial Tutors, respects and loves his father, and wishes to carry on his legacy. He succeeds his father in 1025, and we go from there.
2. Emperor Shingzong of Liao has a second son in 1018, Yelu Kangxu (see post above).
3. The centralization of Serbia is impossible if you want the Byzantine empire to survive and prosper. It's a theme right now, remember? I would suggest dropping this one Onyx. I bloody hate Serbia anyways...
4. Yaroslav the Wise is killed by Sviatopolk in 1018. See this thread. If you're looking for Independent Rus states, well too bad. You already got them prior and after the reign of Yaroslav the Wise. What would change history is if Kieven Rus' is centralized as a result of Yaroslav's death, but I'm sure you don't want that. So leave them alone until the impacts of there being no Mongol Horde reach Russia and the rest of the Steppe in the 1220s.
5. The Saxons win the Battle of Hastings in 1066. Whether Harold's deposed later by the Saxons for not being descended from King Alfred or not, I will come back to later.
6. Minamoto Yoshitsune becomes Shogun instead of Yoritomo in the 1180s. He defeats the Hojo regents and centralizes Japan under his rule. Stuff happens. Bleh.

 

[Onyx]

1. Basil II decides to marry for the good of the Empire after reminiscing about a dream he had (The he did not OTL). He has a son around 1000 AD (name not yet decided on), who is very well educated in military and administrative teachings from Imperial Tutors, respects and loves his father, and wishes to carry on his legacy. He succeeds his father in 1025, and we go from there.
2. Emperor Shingzong of Liao has a second son in 1018, Yelu Kangxu (see post above).
3. The centralization of Serbia is impossible if you want the Byzantine empire to survive and prosper. It's a theme right now, remember? I would suggest dropping this one Onyx. I bloody hate Serbia anyways...
4. Yaroslav the Wise is killed by Sviatopolk in 1018. See this thread. If you're looking for Independent Rus states, well too bad. You already got them prior and after the reign of Yaroslav the Wise. What would change history is if Kieven Rus' is centralized as a result of Yaroslav's death, but I'm sure you don't want that. So leave them alone until the impacts of there being no Mongol Horde reach Russia and the rest of the Steppe in the 1220s.
5. The Saxons win the Battle of Hastings in 1066. Whether Harold's deposed later by the Saxons for not being descended from King Alfred or not, I will come back to later.
6. Minamoto Yoshitsune becomes Shogun instead of Yoritomo in the 1180s. He defeats the Hojo regents and centralizes Japan under his rule. Stuff happens. Bleh.

I had another one
This was ignored since no one really responded to it:

Since Im having the Cumans/Kypchaks convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, Im thinking that one of them rejects the other's decision to convert, and migrate out of the Steppes to the east, preferebly to Central Asia, and replace the Kara-Khanids.
I wouldnt say who, because I can't find a difference between them or there preference in there religion in Islam or Christianity, any help would be necessary on this

 

[democracy101]

And that's fine. The Khitai, the Jurchens and the Han Chinese will gradually be assimilated into a cultural fusion (or melting pot) consisting of elements of Chinese, Khitai and Jurchen nature, according to Oryx's plan. Agriculture will remain sedentary in the East, and pastoral in the west. Architecture will remain similar to Chinese but will develop a northern flavor and style to them as time goes on. The arts will be heavily influenced from Chinese and Korean art as expected, and Religion will remain mainly Buddhist and Daoist. And as shown above, my PoD makes it possible for the Liao dynasty to survive another century.

I was under the impression that the administration was split into nomadic and Chinese components, which meant that the southern region ultimately remained culturally Chinese. In other words, the state attempted to keep the regions separate in order to maintain a general status quo before the Khitan took over, which would make it unlikely for the cultural elements to be mixed together, for fear of assimilation. In terms of the population, I realized that the Khitan numbered less than 1 million, while the Chinese population within the Liao amounted to several million, so with a large influx of immigrants, the ruling ethnic group would ultimately be outnumbered by around 5:1 or more. This imbalance would probably cause the majority to eventually revolt and throw off Khitan rule, similar to what occurred during the transition between the Yuan and Ming.

 

[Grouchio]

I was under the impression that the administration was split into nomadic and Chinese components, which meant that the southern region ultimately remained culturally Chinese. In other words, the state attempted to keep the regions separate in order to maintain a general status quo before the Khitan took over, which would make it unlikely for the cultural elements to be mixed together, for fear of assimilation. In terms of the population, I realized that the Khitan numbered less than 1 million, while the Chinese population within the Liao numbered several million, so with a large influx of immigrants, the ruling ethnic group would ultimately be outnumbered by around 5:1 or more. This imbalance would probably cause the majority to eventually revolt and throw off Khitan rule, similar to what occurred during the transition between the Yuan and Ming.

But why now would the peasants do that if they're prospering relatively under Liao rule as they would under Song Chinese rule? If they were to revolt, they would've already by the time the Jurchens did OTL.

@Onyx: Well, the Volga Bulgarians are predominantly Muslim in their little city-state nearby Perm. The Naimans west of Mongolia are Nestorian Christian. Everyone else is Tengriistic or Shamanistic.