So this is something I've been working on for many years, but some things still just don't feel correct or fit as nicely as I'd like to. I'm hoping a fresh set of eyes will yield some new ideas and workability.
Basically, I will be posting various 'sections' of the TL in chronological format and we'll evaluate it as a group. Hopefully it passes as "okay, that's interesting but could work" or gets changed or outright replaced with a different idea. Then, we can help decide what the most logical course of action would be after this.
In other words, this TL isn't quite finished, and I'm looking for help and suggestions to see where it might go, or to evaluate the plausibility of such a thing. Here's what I generally have so far (in incredibly condensed form):
Central POD is post War of 1812 where, amidst the period of OTL's 'The Atlantic Revolutions', Britain generally heeds the words of Admiral Sir David Milne when he wrote "We cannot keep Canada if the Americans declare war against us again." The presence of numerous settlers of American origin in Upper Canada leave Britain wary of potential revolution that could be used as a future casus belli.
Different Latin American Wars of Independence results in the Department/Republic of Guayaquil becoming a British Protectorate. This upsets America and the nascent Monroe Doctrine. In 1827, Dalhousie's refusal of accepting Papineau as Speaker of the Assembly leads to earlier Lower and Upper Canada rebellions (there is also the shortlived OTL Madawaska Republic). Emboldened by the revolutions elsewhere, they also seek responsible government. In other words, Canadian history is jump-started by a full decade.
Heeding Milne's words and having seen the dangers of where revolution can lead, the British government of Arthur Wellesley acts rather quickly, and a provisional act of union between the Canada's and the rest of the BNA colonies is pushed in order (or hopes) to better deter the US and revolutionary zeal. More forts such as OTL's citadelle, Fort Henry, and others are constructed in case another war breaks out.
1842. It's clear that this rushed union is not working out for many, and gold has just been discovered in the Fraser Valley of the Oregon Country/Columbia District. Coinciding with an earlier establishment of "proto-Canada," there is an earlier though still not wholehearted attempt at western settlement. This stokes American fears that Britain will attempt to seize all of the Oregon Country. Amicable Anglo-Mexican relations and the British fortifications do not assuage fears that a new war is around the corner. Eager for access to the Pacific, America is willing to go to war if necessary. "54'40 or Fight!" becomes far more serious and literal.
Roughly coinciding with the discovery of gold in the Fraser Valley of the Columbia District/Oregon Country, the Union put pressure on Britain to allow them to reform it and Britain, wary of American expansion and disunited colonies, was eager to listen. It also helped that Baldwin and Lafontaine were around to help try and find cooperation and compromise. The end result is the replacement of the Union of North America with the Commonwealth of North America in 1842, which was a relatively loose union with many protections and guarantees for minorities, be they linguistic or religious. It also maintained a promise for greater representation for the smaller provinces, and would also enable greater funding for projects such as railroads. Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine became the first Premier of the Commonwealth of North America.
Seeing European interference in Venezuela, Central America, Ecuador, and Argentina, America forms a sort of "Anti-Imperial/Anti-European Alliance." The Oregon crisis, Texas issue, and European interference in Latin America eventually lead to the Pan-American War, a war between Britain and allies vs America and allies across the two continents. It lasts from 1846 to 1852. The war beyond North America catches Britain off-guard, but they do eventually rally and the war becomes a British victory.
The loss of space to expand exacerbates an already tense crisis between slave and free states in the US. Some other PODs lead to the US Civil War starting in 1851. It also lasts much longer due to events and loss of life and industry in the Pan-American War. Mexico loses a rump Texas, and Britain holds onto northern California in exchange for lifting their debt to them. This and other PODs prevent a later return of Santa Anna, much to Mexico's benefit (sort of). Europe generally sees the defeat of America as a defeat of the Monroe Doctrine as well, and begin searching for potential opportunities to exploit.
Further reform and tweaking of the "proto-Canada" eventually results in it becoming the Kingdom of Canada, with then-prince Arthur being crowned King William I of Canada in 1867. Things are good for Canada as a whole. Terrible Icelandic eruption essentially results in temporary uninhabitability of most of Iceland (Mount Askja eruption, but even worse than OTL). A 'free state' of sorts is set up in Canada similar to OTL. This will have repercussions later.
The French exploit the Reform War in Mexico to help restore the Mexican Empire and turn it into a French Protectorate. Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic) becomes a US state in 1871. In 1873, eager to unite Americans, the Virginius affair is the catalyst for an earlier Spanish-American War. Puerto Rico becomes a territory, and Cuba is invited to become a state.
Uruguay by this point is firmly in the sphere of Brazil and is ostensibly a British Protectorate. The ongoing crisis/civil war in Argentina means they can't settle/claim Patagonia as effectively. The Welsh still colonize the area. Patagonia eventually becomes a British Colony. Kind of like a South American version of Newfoundland or Nova Scotia (still part of the British Empire, but proud of the history, heritage, culture, and language. This makes Patagonia the second part of the world to speak Welsh as an official language.
Different events in Europe has led to a stronger (though not super strong) Netherlands. The French have also helped restore the Second Haitian Empire and make them a puppet state of France. The Dutch have a small colony on Guatemala's coast. The Spanish attempted to retake Santo Domingo in 1853, but failed (this was also before they asked to become a US state). These events helped Britain reconsider the Monroe Doctrine and helped turn them away from recognizing the CSA.
With no Belgium sneaking in the Congo Free State thanks to earlier PODs, Africa continues as normal; influence with natives. This makes for a much different colonial conference and scramble for Africa. A system more akin to what the British had in India and the Dutch had in Indonesia becomes the standard format of colonization and control in Africa. Lots of "Princely States" in this TL. Dutch exploration and colonization of the Congo pushes the convening of the Berlin Conference. Britain takes the Dutch side as far as establishing company/colonial control and exerting influence on kingdoms being the way future dealings with Africa should work. Other nations (France, Portugal, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc.) agree to this principle.
The extra involvement of Britain in affairs in the Americas has left them feeling frustrated and overwhelmed when they want to focus on more global affairs. Britain offers to help the US reestablish and indirectly enforce the Monroe Doctrine in exchange for acceptance of Canada and existing British colonies in the hemisphere. This is accepted and is the start of better and more amicable relations between the two powers. America starts to settle into an international role different from OTL: that of democratic champion, global factory, and business investor (like OTL's modern China, only a force for good). The situation and enough people are convinced that things are pretty peaceful or internal in the Americas, and so Britain transfers control of all its colonies and protectorates in the Americas and the Atlantic to the Kingdom of Canada. These are called 'Trusts' instead of Dominions because though British, they are held "in trust" of the Kingdom of Canada which has become far bigger and more populous than OTL. Essentially, it is now the "British Empire in the Western Hemisphere," or the Western British Empire in some circles.
Early 1900's. There's still some crises, including the new Iceland Crisis that sees Iceland become a part of Canada via referendum due to the aforementioned history. Denmark is salty. Though African colonization is pretty different, it still happens though the borders are wonkier and more natural. WWI happens pretty much OTL. America, being more neutral TTL, still helps Britain et al with supplies and loans, but doesn't get involved in the war. There's no German invitation to Mexico to invade the US because earlier POD's left Mexico with much more territory than OTL, and Mexico has had a good thing going for a while (they're kind of becoming like the Spanish-speaking Catholic version of OTL America; coast to coast, lots of people, booming economy, deeply religious). However, Canada and the British Empire are bigger. Also, Brazil joins the war in 1917 like it did OTL.
In this TL, the war happens similarly, only sans Americans. Anticipating a fresh massive wave of newly trained Brazilian units, the Germans have their Spring Offensive but it is halted and pushed back more or less as per OTL. However, because both sides didn't acquire total victory in this version, the peace leaves no one happy.
Russia still descends into civil war, Germany is allowed to keep its eastern OTL borders pre-1914 but is sworn from any further annexations or putting German princelings in control of new states in eastern Europe. They are also banned from uniting with Austria. They are not banned from establishing relationships and protectorates with the new states, though, provided they also give up their overseas colonies. Germany gives up all of Schleswig-Hollstein (as said earlier, the Danes are salty and this is their consolation prize) and returns Alsace-Lorraine to France. Germany must demilitarize as per OTL but doesn't suffer occupation as in OTL. Poland, Lithuania, Estonia/Livonia, Ukraine, and Finland all become independent. Germany doesn't suffer the sole blame for WWI and pays much less in reparations than OTL.
Germany breathes a sigh of relief as the war was not a total embarrassment (they retain more of their borders, don't suffer occupation, and still retain a degree of power and influence and new opportunities in eastern Europe). This also means the German Empire survives, albeit by a slim margin. Russia is pissed because, well, Russia. They want those territories back. France is pissed because they wanted to see Germany suffer completely and see eastern Europe as being "given away as a German plaything." This leads France and Russia to feeling 'abandoned' by their allies, and incidentally pushes them closer together in a new/renewed Franco-Russian Alliance.
In the wake of the war, British Dominions ask for the "Canada treatment," where they get territories and 'independence' and their own kingdoms. Australia is the most passionate for this, followed to a certain degree by New Zealand. South Africa, for still tense ethnic and cultural reasons, is not as keen (though it does eventually happen, as well as a different political history that sees it avoid being a pariah state and having majority rule). India also asks for greater representation, which only complicates matters further. In the wake of the war, France descends into chaos and a revolution brings about a French version of fascism/nationalism.
Some shit happens in the 30s, and it's clear that France and Russia are the big allied powers looking to settle the score from WWI. Italy goes fascist, and the French take their cue from that like OTL Nazi Germany did. The 'Axis Powers' of this TL are France, the USSR, and Italy. France and Italy covertly help the fascists in Spain win the civil war. Other post-WWI events have led the development of the "Latin League," an alliance/economic objective between France, Italy, Spain, and Portugal to a certain extent. Romania also considers joining, but fears encirclement by enemies (Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, and Bulgaria).
Germany and Britain are like "omgwtf" and try to prevent their surging power. They eventually issue an ultimatum that if the Soviets invade any of the recently independent countries, and if France and/or the Latin League support them, that would be seen as an act of war. They also sideeye Belgium for any French leanings. The war kicks off when the Soviets invade Finland, and France exploits a crisis in Belgium. TTL's version of WWII has kicked off. "Allied Powers" are: British Empire et al., German Empire, Finland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria, Japan, Brazil, the USA, Turkey and others that would join later. The "Axis Powers" are: France and colonies, USSR, Italy and colonies, Spain and colonies, Serbia, and Greece.
The Soviet invasion is a diversion, meant to draw allied men to the East so France can exploit Belgium and transport their armies through it while the Maginot Line limits German movement options. Fearing they might ally with Germany and assault their supply lines, France invades the Netherlands. Now needing to split men between two fronts, the Soviets unleash an invasion of the Baltics, Ukraine, and Poland as well. However, like with OTL's Winter War, it quickly becomes an embarrassment for the Soviets. Poland does the worst out of them all because they limited German influence. However, the other states, fearful of the Soviets and Polish irredentism took to German training and military structure and tactics. They are holding, allowing the Germans to increase focus on France and their southern allies. Africa becomes a much more crucial part of the war than OTL.
Post WWII TTL, the Latin League is defeated when allied troops march into Paris with only minor fighting and resistance. Nukes are dropped on several Russian cities, including Moscow and Stalingrad (the soviets "take more work"). Japan has taken parts of the Russian Far East. Canada has invaded French territories in the Caribbean and West Africa, and helped in the Italian, North African, and Spanish campaigns. They also helped liberate Denmark and the Netherlands. Other stuff that I forget.
This is about where I've gotten so far, but there's more I want to include. This is also where I would like some help and guidance. I do have some ideas, but I'll get to those when it becomes relevant.
Basically, I will be posting various 'sections' of the TL in chronological format and we'll evaluate it as a group. Hopefully it passes as "okay, that's interesting but could work" or gets changed or outright replaced with a different idea. Then, we can help decide what the most logical course of action would be after this.
In other words, this TL isn't quite finished, and I'm looking for help and suggestions to see where it might go, or to evaluate the plausibility of such a thing. Here's what I generally have so far (in incredibly condensed form):
Central POD is post War of 1812 where, amidst the period of OTL's 'The Atlantic Revolutions', Britain generally heeds the words of Admiral Sir David Milne when he wrote "We cannot keep Canada if the Americans declare war against us again." The presence of numerous settlers of American origin in Upper Canada leave Britain wary of potential revolution that could be used as a future casus belli.
Different Latin American Wars of Independence results in the Department/Republic of Guayaquil becoming a British Protectorate. This upsets America and the nascent Monroe Doctrine. In 1827, Dalhousie's refusal of accepting Papineau as Speaker of the Assembly leads to earlier Lower and Upper Canada rebellions (there is also the shortlived OTL Madawaska Republic). Emboldened by the revolutions elsewhere, they also seek responsible government. In other words, Canadian history is jump-started by a full decade.
Heeding Milne's words and having seen the dangers of where revolution can lead, the British government of Arthur Wellesley acts rather quickly, and a provisional act of union between the Canada's and the rest of the BNA colonies is pushed in order (or hopes) to better deter the US and revolutionary zeal. More forts such as OTL's citadelle, Fort Henry, and others are constructed in case another war breaks out.
1842. It's clear that this rushed union is not working out for many, and gold has just been discovered in the Fraser Valley of the Oregon Country/Columbia District. Coinciding with an earlier establishment of "proto-Canada," there is an earlier though still not wholehearted attempt at western settlement. This stokes American fears that Britain will attempt to seize all of the Oregon Country. Amicable Anglo-Mexican relations and the British fortifications do not assuage fears that a new war is around the corner. Eager for access to the Pacific, America is willing to go to war if necessary. "54'40 or Fight!" becomes far more serious and literal.
Roughly coinciding with the discovery of gold in the Fraser Valley of the Columbia District/Oregon Country, the Union put pressure on Britain to allow them to reform it and Britain, wary of American expansion and disunited colonies, was eager to listen. It also helped that Baldwin and Lafontaine were around to help try and find cooperation and compromise. The end result is the replacement of the Union of North America with the Commonwealth of North America in 1842, which was a relatively loose union with many protections and guarantees for minorities, be they linguistic or religious. It also maintained a promise for greater representation for the smaller provinces, and would also enable greater funding for projects such as railroads. Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine became the first Premier of the Commonwealth of North America.
Seeing European interference in Venezuela, Central America, Ecuador, and Argentina, America forms a sort of "Anti-Imperial/Anti-European Alliance." The Oregon crisis, Texas issue, and European interference in Latin America eventually lead to the Pan-American War, a war between Britain and allies vs America and allies across the two continents. It lasts from 1846 to 1852. The war beyond North America catches Britain off-guard, but they do eventually rally and the war becomes a British victory.
The loss of space to expand exacerbates an already tense crisis between slave and free states in the US. Some other PODs lead to the US Civil War starting in 1851. It also lasts much longer due to events and loss of life and industry in the Pan-American War. Mexico loses a rump Texas, and Britain holds onto northern California in exchange for lifting their debt to them. This and other PODs prevent a later return of Santa Anna, much to Mexico's benefit (sort of). Europe generally sees the defeat of America as a defeat of the Monroe Doctrine as well, and begin searching for potential opportunities to exploit.
Further reform and tweaking of the "proto-Canada" eventually results in it becoming the Kingdom of Canada, with then-prince Arthur being crowned King William I of Canada in 1867. Things are good for Canada as a whole. Terrible Icelandic eruption essentially results in temporary uninhabitability of most of Iceland (Mount Askja eruption, but even worse than OTL). A 'free state' of sorts is set up in Canada similar to OTL. This will have repercussions later.
The French exploit the Reform War in Mexico to help restore the Mexican Empire and turn it into a French Protectorate. Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic) becomes a US state in 1871. In 1873, eager to unite Americans, the Virginius affair is the catalyst for an earlier Spanish-American War. Puerto Rico becomes a territory, and Cuba is invited to become a state.
Uruguay by this point is firmly in the sphere of Brazil and is ostensibly a British Protectorate. The ongoing crisis/civil war in Argentina means they can't settle/claim Patagonia as effectively. The Welsh still colonize the area. Patagonia eventually becomes a British Colony. Kind of like a South American version of Newfoundland or Nova Scotia (still part of the British Empire, but proud of the history, heritage, culture, and language. This makes Patagonia the second part of the world to speak Welsh as an official language.
Different events in Europe has led to a stronger (though not super strong) Netherlands. The French have also helped restore the Second Haitian Empire and make them a puppet state of France. The Dutch have a small colony on Guatemala's coast. The Spanish attempted to retake Santo Domingo in 1853, but failed (this was also before they asked to become a US state). These events helped Britain reconsider the Monroe Doctrine and helped turn them away from recognizing the CSA.
With no Belgium sneaking in the Congo Free State thanks to earlier PODs, Africa continues as normal; influence with natives. This makes for a much different colonial conference and scramble for Africa. A system more akin to what the British had in India and the Dutch had in Indonesia becomes the standard format of colonization and control in Africa. Lots of "Princely States" in this TL. Dutch exploration and colonization of the Congo pushes the convening of the Berlin Conference. Britain takes the Dutch side as far as establishing company/colonial control and exerting influence on kingdoms being the way future dealings with Africa should work. Other nations (France, Portugal, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc.) agree to this principle.
The extra involvement of Britain in affairs in the Americas has left them feeling frustrated and overwhelmed when they want to focus on more global affairs. Britain offers to help the US reestablish and indirectly enforce the Monroe Doctrine in exchange for acceptance of Canada and existing British colonies in the hemisphere. This is accepted and is the start of better and more amicable relations between the two powers. America starts to settle into an international role different from OTL: that of democratic champion, global factory, and business investor (like OTL's modern China, only a force for good). The situation and enough people are convinced that things are pretty peaceful or internal in the Americas, and so Britain transfers control of all its colonies and protectorates in the Americas and the Atlantic to the Kingdom of Canada. These are called 'Trusts' instead of Dominions because though British, they are held "in trust" of the Kingdom of Canada which has become far bigger and more populous than OTL. Essentially, it is now the "British Empire in the Western Hemisphere," or the Western British Empire in some circles.
Early 1900's. There's still some crises, including the new Iceland Crisis that sees Iceland become a part of Canada via referendum due to the aforementioned history. Denmark is salty. Though African colonization is pretty different, it still happens though the borders are wonkier and more natural. WWI happens pretty much OTL. America, being more neutral TTL, still helps Britain et al with supplies and loans, but doesn't get involved in the war. There's no German invitation to Mexico to invade the US because earlier POD's left Mexico with much more territory than OTL, and Mexico has had a good thing going for a while (they're kind of becoming like the Spanish-speaking Catholic version of OTL America; coast to coast, lots of people, booming economy, deeply religious). However, Canada and the British Empire are bigger. Also, Brazil joins the war in 1917 like it did OTL.
In this TL, the war happens similarly, only sans Americans. Anticipating a fresh massive wave of newly trained Brazilian units, the Germans have their Spring Offensive but it is halted and pushed back more or less as per OTL. However, because both sides didn't acquire total victory in this version, the peace leaves no one happy.
Russia still descends into civil war, Germany is allowed to keep its eastern OTL borders pre-1914 but is sworn from any further annexations or putting German princelings in control of new states in eastern Europe. They are also banned from uniting with Austria. They are not banned from establishing relationships and protectorates with the new states, though, provided they also give up their overseas colonies. Germany gives up all of Schleswig-Hollstein (as said earlier, the Danes are salty and this is their consolation prize) and returns Alsace-Lorraine to France. Germany must demilitarize as per OTL but doesn't suffer occupation as in OTL. Poland, Lithuania, Estonia/Livonia, Ukraine, and Finland all become independent. Germany doesn't suffer the sole blame for WWI and pays much less in reparations than OTL.
Germany breathes a sigh of relief as the war was not a total embarrassment (they retain more of their borders, don't suffer occupation, and still retain a degree of power and influence and new opportunities in eastern Europe). This also means the German Empire survives, albeit by a slim margin. Russia is pissed because, well, Russia. They want those territories back. France is pissed because they wanted to see Germany suffer completely and see eastern Europe as being "given away as a German plaything." This leads France and Russia to feeling 'abandoned' by their allies, and incidentally pushes them closer together in a new/renewed Franco-Russian Alliance.
In the wake of the war, British Dominions ask for the "Canada treatment," where they get territories and 'independence' and their own kingdoms. Australia is the most passionate for this, followed to a certain degree by New Zealand. South Africa, for still tense ethnic and cultural reasons, is not as keen (though it does eventually happen, as well as a different political history that sees it avoid being a pariah state and having majority rule). India also asks for greater representation, which only complicates matters further. In the wake of the war, France descends into chaos and a revolution brings about a French version of fascism/nationalism.
Some shit happens in the 30s, and it's clear that France and Russia are the big allied powers looking to settle the score from WWI. Italy goes fascist, and the French take their cue from that like OTL Nazi Germany did. The 'Axis Powers' of this TL are France, the USSR, and Italy. France and Italy covertly help the fascists in Spain win the civil war. Other post-WWI events have led the development of the "Latin League," an alliance/economic objective between France, Italy, Spain, and Portugal to a certain extent. Romania also considers joining, but fears encirclement by enemies (Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, and Bulgaria).
Germany and Britain are like "omgwtf" and try to prevent their surging power. They eventually issue an ultimatum that if the Soviets invade any of the recently independent countries, and if France and/or the Latin League support them, that would be seen as an act of war. They also sideeye Belgium for any French leanings. The war kicks off when the Soviets invade Finland, and France exploits a crisis in Belgium. TTL's version of WWII has kicked off. "Allied Powers" are: British Empire et al., German Empire, Finland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria, Japan, Brazil, the USA, Turkey and others that would join later. The "Axis Powers" are: France and colonies, USSR, Italy and colonies, Spain and colonies, Serbia, and Greece.
The Soviet invasion is a diversion, meant to draw allied men to the East so France can exploit Belgium and transport their armies through it while the Maginot Line limits German movement options. Fearing they might ally with Germany and assault their supply lines, France invades the Netherlands. Now needing to split men between two fronts, the Soviets unleash an invasion of the Baltics, Ukraine, and Poland as well. However, like with OTL's Winter War, it quickly becomes an embarrassment for the Soviets. Poland does the worst out of them all because they limited German influence. However, the other states, fearful of the Soviets and Polish irredentism took to German training and military structure and tactics. They are holding, allowing the Germans to increase focus on France and their southern allies. Africa becomes a much more crucial part of the war than OTL.
Post WWII TTL, the Latin League is defeated when allied troops march into Paris with only minor fighting and resistance. Nukes are dropped on several Russian cities, including Moscow and Stalingrad (the soviets "take more work"). Japan has taken parts of the Russian Far East. Canada has invaded French territories in the Caribbean and West Africa, and helped in the Italian, North African, and Spanish campaigns. They also helped liberate Denmark and the Netherlands. Other stuff that I forget.
This is about where I've gotten so far, but there's more I want to include. This is also where I would like some help and guidance. I do have some ideas, but I'll get to those when it becomes relevant.
