Help for a TL

In a ACW thread that was started by Mitchell Hundred, I mentioned the fact that Napoleon III of France had been actively considering joining the war on the side of the Confederacy. I had come to the interesting thought, what if France had sided with the Confederacy (I was thinking late 1861 or sometime in 1862). However, I'm wanting some help with some of the resources and things.

I made a brief list of things I need help with. They are:

-Napoleon III
-French cabinet
-French Military capabilities
-French interests in Mexico and Central America
-Position of GB in such an event


Napoleon III isn't too hard, as I have his wiki page saved on my comp. Although I appreciate any suggestions as how to portray him when I finally get started.

The French cabinet however during this period I am having some trouble with. Especially with regards to Edouard Thouvenel, who from what I can tell was Pro-Union.

I also need information the capabilities of France's military during this period. This would effect how much assistance France could actually render to the Confederacy.

While I have articles regarding French policy in Mexico, and that France had an interest in Central America, I do not know the full extent of this.

Finally, I'd like some help in ascertaining what GB's position on this would be. Since France wasn't OTL willing to go ahead and support the south without British support, I am wondering what that actually entails.

I will not post the TL here, but I am more than willing to discuss it here. I will not be posting it until I have at least ironed out some of the intial details, and have at least five updates ready to go.
 
Great Britain would probably take the opportunity to declare war on France and take some of their African possessions; they might not whole-heartedly support the US, however. On the other hand, they could stay out of it entirely.

By the way, is possessions the only word with two double s's, or are there others?
 
Great Britain would probably take the opportunity to declare war on France and take some of their African possessions; they might not whole-heartedly support the US, however. On the other hand, they could stay out of it entirely.

By the way, is possessions the only word with two double s's, or are there others?

I disagree. Great Britain would be unhappy, but outright warfare? I don't see why it would come to that.


In a ACW thread that was started by Mitchell Hundred, I mentioned the fact that Napoleon III of France had been actively considering joining the war on the side of the Confederacy. I had come to the interesting thought, what if France had sided with the Confederacy (I was thinking late 1861 or sometime in 1862). However, I'm wanting some help with some of the resources and things.

I made a brief list of things I need help with. They are:

-Napoleon III
-French cabinet
-French Military capabilities
-French interests in Mexico and Central America
-Position of GB in such an event


Napoleon III isn't too hard, as I have his wiki page saved on my comp. Although I appreciate any suggestions as how to portray him when I finally get started.

The French cabinet however during this period I am having some trouble with. Especially with regards to Edouard Thouvenel, who from what I can tell was Pro-Union.

I also need information the capabilities of France's military during this period. This would effect how much assistance France could actually render to the Confederacy.

While I have articles regarding French policy in Mexico, and that France had an interest in Central America, I do not know the full extent of this.

Finally, I'd like some help in ascertaining what GB's position on this would be. Since France wasn't OTL willing to go ahead and support the south without British support, I am wondering what that actually entails.

I will not post the TL here, but I am more than willing to discuss it here. I will not be posting it until I have at least ironed out some of the intial details, and have at least five updates ready to go.

This is a good scenario--I've always thought a French intervention in the ACW was more likely than a British one. I can't help you too much however, since the extent of my information comes from Wikipedia! The one thing I would like to ask is what is the exact POD for your time-line? Does Napoleon III just decide to intervene in the war?
 
I disagree. Great Britain would be unhappy, but outright warfare? I don't see why it would come to that.

This is a good scenario--I've always thought a French intervention in the ACW was more likely than a British one. I can't help you too much however, since the extent of my information comes from Wikipedia! The one thing I would like to ask is what is the exact POD for your time-line? Does Napoleon III just decide to intervene in the war?

From what I know, I have to agree. I don't neccessarily see GB starting a war with France over this (although I suppose its possible with the right chain of events...)

Most people tend to think of GB first, yet forget that the CSA was also asking for aid from France (actually, I think the CSA was asking for help from every major power in Europe, though Britian and France were the two most likely to be able to help I think.) France has more reason's to side with the Confederacy than Britian does. In fact, it wasn't really Britian that relied on southern cotton, but France (they experienced a major shortage, and several of their fabric factories had to lay off workers) Not to mention France's intervention in Mexico (the US was not happy about it, the Monroe Doctrine and all that, but I can see the CSA making a deal with France to recognize the Mexican Empire in return for their help, as well as possibly aiding or giving a free hand to French ambitions in the Carribean and Central America)

In fact, I think it could have been the reverse. I think if France had decided to intervene, Britian might have joined in the conflict. Keyword being might.

As for the POD, I need more information before I pin that down. At the moment, I'm thinking of having Edouard Thouvenel die (accidentally of course ;)) in mid or late 1860. He was France's foreign minister at the time, and was very pro-union (from what I understand). It was in part due to his suggestions that kept Napoleon III from entering the war on the side of the CSA (the other being a lacking of British support, but thinking about it, that might have been a fabrication by Edouard or another adviser. Need to look that one up...)

I wonder if there was anyone who hated Edouard...or was gunning for his position...hmm...:D
 
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I know this is double posting, but no one else has responded and I've had no luck in some of my searches.

Can anyone point me to a site or book that has information on the military forces of France during the 1860's? Its economic power would be helpful as well.
 
Lord Palmerston wasn't afraid to act with a heavy hand. Nevertheless, I doubt that Britain would see fit to violate their neutrality in either direction, particularly not against France and the CSA. The Special Relationship was not thoroughly defined at this time, cooperation in China aside, and both Palmerston and Gladstone were as sympathetic toward the CSA as the neutrality permitted and a bit more.

As for entrance against the US, the likeliest way to try and get them in the war is to have the Trent affair blow up far more than it did, in which case it would be Britain starting talk of intervention. Even so, that event really stands by itself - guns were rattled, but if something was going to happen it would have...
Entrance at the urging of France would be difficult to pull off. Impossible, once the true motive of the French to expand their Empire is known. Palmerston doesn't want a powerful French rival to replace a potential US rival. Meanwhile Chancellor of the Exchequer was Gladstone, the ultimate laissez-faire liberal, he was particularly economic-minded at this point and an expensive war was contrary to his aims. My guess is even in this situation, Britain remains neutral and rakes in the cash selling saltpeter.


(Ganesha: assassin)
 
Lord Palmerston wasn't afraid to act with a heavy hand. Nevertheless, I doubt that Britain would see fit to violate their neutrality in either direction, particularly not against France and the CSA. The Special Relationship was not thoroughly defined at this time, cooperation in China aside, and both Palmerston and Gladstone were as sympathetic toward the CSA as the neutrality permitted and a bit more.

As for entrance against the US, the likeliest way to try and get them in the war is to have the Trent affair blow up far more than it did, in which case it would be Britain starting talk of intervention. Even so, that event really stands by itself - guns were rattled, but if something was going to happen it would have...
Entrance at the urging of France would be difficult to pull off. Impossible, once the true motive of the French to expand their Empire is known. Palmerston doesn't want a powerful French rival to replace a potential US rival. Meanwhile Chancellor of the Exchequer was Gladstone, the ultimate laissez-faire liberal, he was particularly economic-minded at this point and an expensive war was contrary to his aims. My guess is even in this situation, Britain remains neutral and rakes in the cash selling saltpeter.


(Ganesha: assassin)

Thanks for the viewpoint of Britian. That does help somewhat, although I'm still needing information on the French Military of 1860-1863, as well as France's economic capabilities in the (correcting here) late 1850's and very early 1860's.
 
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