Health problems of the Valois

Which Valois? The original branch? The Valois-Orléans? The Valois-Angoulême?

For the first, there is obviously Charles VI's insanity, which got transmitted to his grandson Henry VI, through his daughter's marriage to Henry V, one might argue. Louis XI's children were rather weak and sometimes born with physical defects.

The second... well, in those times, gluttony led to gout.

For the third, well, François Ier probably died of syphilis. Which, considering the man's sexual appetites and his time period, is not remotely surprising. One of his sons came down with a case of terminal stupidity... and therefore plague. Henri II had a genital malformation which, once it was diagnosed, did not prevent him from breeding like a rabbit. His sons and daughters often had physical difformities or weak constitutions. Henri III was also subject to chronic illnesses like his brothers and sisters but seemed to have been able to endure them, even on campaign. Of course, that did not make immune to a straight-up stabbing. Then there are the rumours of infertility, but many of Henri II's died young, Charles IX had a bastard daughter and it may have been Henri III's wife who was infertile.
 
Sorry, I meant the Valois-Angoulême. What were the health issues that were introduced by the wives?

Actually, what problems did Charles VIII, Louis XII and Anne of Brittany have?
 
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Sorry, I meant the Valois-Angoulême. What were the health issues that were introduced by the wives?

Not much, since only two produced issue: Claude de Bretagne/France and Catherine de Médicis. The first one died young and was infected by her husband of syphilis but her lameness might have been inherited by her grandchildren through Henri II. She was also from a line with a very high infant mortality, even for the period. The second one... well, it's not clear. The black legend her enemies crafted obscures much. Because of Henri II's penile difformity which meant he could not impregnate her in the first years of their marriage, she feared she was going to be repudiated and supposedly drank many 'potions' to help with her fertility, which might have a deleterious effect on the health of her children but then again might have not.

Actually, what problems did Charles VIII, Louis XII and Anne of Brittany have?

Charles VIII was a weak child. His father Louis XI ordered he got a light education so he might not overexert himself. He seems to have partly overcome this by the time he was an adult since he campaigned vigorously in Italy (but got some illnesses for that), but that only hastened his demise: he hit his head on a stone ceiling while going to a tennis game. Louis XII had gout. François Ier also accused him of being impotent. Anne de Bretagne was the mother of the aforementioned Claude. Many deaths in very early childhood for her issue with only two girls surviving out of ten children. So part of the Valois-Angoulême weakness in constitution might come for her plus François Ier's syphilis. Not to mention the inbreeding.
 
Not much, since only two produced issue: Claude de Bretagne/France and Catherine de Médicis. The first one died young and was infected by her husband of syphilis but her lameness might have been inherited by her grandchildren through Henri II. She was also from a line with a very high infant mortality, even for the period. The second one... well, it's not clear. The black legend her enemies crafted obscures much. Because of Henri II's penile difformity which meant he could not impregnate her in the first years of their marriage, she feared she was going to be repudiated and supposedly drank many 'potions' to help with her fertility, which might have a deleterious effect on the health of her children but then again might have not.



Charles VIII was a weak child. His father Louis XI ordered he got a light education so he might not overexert himself. He seems to have partly overcome this by the time he was an adult since he campaigned vigorously in Italy (but got some illnesses for that), but that only hastened his demise: he hit his head on a stone ceiling while going to a tennis game. Louis XII had gout. François Ier also accused him of being impotent. Anne de Bretagne was the mother of the aforementioned Claude. Many deaths in very early childhood for her issue with only two girls surviving out of ten children. So part of the Valois-Angoulême weakness in constitution might come for her plus François Ier's syphilis. Not to mention the inbreeding.


Charles Orlando was the most strongest of the children of Charles VIII, marrying Elisabeth of York will result in Charles VIII most likely have no male grandsons
 
You mean the kid who died at three? Yeah, he probably would have had better chances of siring viable offspring if his father had not reneged on the betrothal to Elizabeth of York. But then, Louis XI tended to support the Lancastrians and it was Burgundy who supported the Yorkists... and no matter how creepy, the engagement of Dauphin Charles to 3-year-old Margaret of Austria made much more sense dynastically.
 
You mean the kid who died at three? Yeah, he probably would have had better chances of siring viable offspring if his father had not reneged on the betrothal to Elizabeth of York. But then, Louis XI tended to support the Lancastrians and it was Burgundy who supported the Yorkists... and no matter how creepy, the engagement of Dauphin Charles to 3-year-old Margaret of Austria made much more sense dynastically.

He had better constitution than Claude..
 
Wasn't Charles Orlando struck down by measles? Any kid would have had difficulties surviving a measles outbreak at the time. It really does seem like he was the strongest of Anne of Brittany's children. That it was merely unfortunate circumstances that killed him.
 
He had better constitution than Claude..

Try staying healthy when your husband gets you continually pregnant from age 15 and gives you syphilis.

Wasn't Charles Orlando struck down by measles? Any kid would have had difficulties surviving a measles outbreak at the time. It really does seem like he was the strongest of Anne of Brittany's children. That it was merely unfortunate circumstances that killed him.

That's not saying much: nearly all others died within a month of their birth. Anyway, Louis XII was ambitious enough for an unfortunate accident to happen in the case he had been made regent. After all, kids aged 5 died all the time.

Charles V and Louis XI, if I'm not mistaken.

Most likely the ones who were referenced, but Charles VII made a decent showing as well. And Charles VI has an excuse where Jean II does not.
 
Most likely the ones who were referenced, but Charles VII made a decent showing as well. And Charles VI has an excuse where Jean II does not.
Yep. Charles VII had Jeanne d'Arc though. She was quite an asset to soldier morale.
Jean II had one of the deepest cases of stupid I've seen. The Draka probably used his powdered bones to spread the Stupid Virus.
Charles VI… Let's say having him be not crazy and a decent king would've been enough to end the HYW with total French victory.
 
Charles VII had her for a year. She was damn effective in that year, but he managed alright in the latter campaigns which freed Normandy and Aquitaine. Of course, by that time, King Henry VI had lost his last marbles and the War of the Roses was beginning to simmer up. Plus the Beauforts were downright incompetent. In fact, it might actually make me believe the claime by Charles VII's own mother (!) that he was illegitimate: he was good at what he did and never went crazy, except for the bout of paranoia at the end of his life. Of course, when your son is l'Universelle Aragne, he probably is out to get you.
 
Charles VII had her for a year. She was damn effective in that year, but he managed alright in the latter campaigns which freed Normandy and Aquitaine. Of course, by that time, King Henry VI had lost his last marbles and the War of the Roses was beginning to simmer up. Plus the Beauforts were downright incompetent. In fact, it might actually make me believe the claime by Charles VII's own mother (!) that he was illegitimate: he was good at what he did and never went crazy, except for the bout of paranoia at the end of his life. Of course, when your son is l'Universelle Aragne, he probably is out to get you.
Quite right. It is possible that having Jeanne d'Arc and then his son the Spider King outshining him may have caused people to underestimate his real competence level.
Then again, Louis XI used money like a diplomatic sledgehammer. This is part of why he remained in history as backstabby.
 
I do love his portrayal by Victor Hugo in Notre-Dame de Paris as a sadistic, completely amoral and yet very devout man out to utterly break the nobility. Shame it gets Esmeralda killed.
 
Quite right. It is possible that having Jeanne d'Arc and then his son the Spider King outshining him may have caused people to underestimate his real competence level.
Then again, Louis XI used money like a diplomatic sledgehammer. This is part of why he remained in history as backstabby.

Actually, I believe that Louis XI could and should have done more... Well, not as much as in your timeline, of course :) He had done great things but also mess-up a lot other things.

Charles VII might was competent... However, it's not for nothing he was called "the well served". He was carried by the wave of national wake-up conscience which wanted to throw away the English. Before Jeane appearance in Bourges... he had proven little less than not loosing what he still had and it was hardly his merit.

So... yah, we can extend the list to three notable exceptions. :) It's quite short than the long list of competent kings that the direct line of Capetian had given... (they had some exceptions too, but hey... this is nature).
 
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