He-118 development

The He-118 has come up on a few occasions and in general there seem to be a consensus that the design did not offer that many prospects. However, here is a specific development question on its possible development path.

Could it have followed the same transitions as was experienced with the He-112 A into the B version and later to He-100?

The He118 was not as good a dive-bomber as JU-87, and due to a thick wing with a lot of drag it was not that fast either. This latter part sound just like the He-112A. Would there have been any future for the aircraft if taking along a similar path?

Here is a recent thread not examining this question though:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/archive/index.php/t-312226.html
 

Deleted member 1487

Maybe as a fighter-bomber/schlachtflugzeug, but you're almost better off starting over with a new design purpose built for that considering how old the design was by the time it came to replace the Ju87.
 
First, there is simply no design continuity between the He 112B and the He 100. They are completely different airplanes.

So if the "He 118" followed the same path, Heinkel and the RLM would look to design and build a completely new and different product to function as a combined dive/attack bomber. Perhaps Heinkel might still want to pursue some of their innovative ideas (paired powerplants and evaporative cooling, etc), so the plane might more likely be an evolution of the He 119 fast bomber, rather than the He 118: a very fast attack bomber employing the paired engine concept driving a single propeller. Give the thing a laminar flow thin wing, and an internal bomb bay, you might get an attacker fast enough to elude interception on its way to a target and capable of executing moderate angle dive-bombing attacks. Or it could be something entirely new.
 
First, there is simply no design continuity between the He 112B and the He 100. They are completely different airplanes.

So if the "He 118" followed the same path, Heinkel and the RLM would look to design and build a completely new and different product to function as a combined dive/attack bomber. Perhaps Heinkel might still want to pursue some of their innovative ideas (paired powerplants and evaporative cooling, etc), so the plane might more likely be an evolution of the He 119 fast bomber, rather than the He 118: a very fast attack bomber employing the paired engine concept driving a single propeller. Give the thing a laminar flow thin wing, and an internal bomb bay, you might get an attacker fast enough to elude interception on its way to a target and capable of executing moderate angle dive-bombing attacks. Or it could be something entirely new.

Its true there was discotinuity between He112 and He100 although the inspiration shows. Anyways, a wing development as that for the He-112B and then comes the better engines. WOuldn't it have been something?
 
First, there is simply no design continuity between the He 112B and the He 100. They are completely different airplanes.

So if the "He 118" followed the same path, Heinkel and the RLM would look to design and build a completely new and different product to function as a combined dive/attack bomber. Perhaps Heinkel might still want to pursue some of their innovative ideas (paired powerplants and evaporative cooling, etc), so the plane might more likely be an evolution of the He 119 fast bomber, rather than the He 118: a very fast attack bomber employing the paired engine concept driving a single propeller. Give the thing a laminar flow thin wing, and an internal bomb bay, you might get an attacker fast enough to elude interception on its way to a target and capable of executing moderate angle dive-bombing attacks. Or it could be something entirely new.

PS. I knew nothing of the He-119. That was some performance. What held that back from production?
 
PS. I knew nothing of the He-119. That was some performance. What held that back from production?

Well, for once it doesn't seem to have been developmental problems with the power plant or cooling system. According to the Wikipedia page (which is available to anyone with an internet link - maybe you should invest in one?) it was because the DB601s that powered it were in short supply. This makes sense because they were used for the Bf109 and Bf110.

However, the German Wikipedia page gives another reason.

Freely translated: "After the first flight of the He 119 V1 in Summer 1936 Heinkel was forbidden by the RLM from continuing the work because in their opinion (the RLM) no military use could be expected for the type. In spite of these threats Heinkel continued the work. After completion of the V5 and following a renewed ban on development, all work was ceased."

Not quite sure why this would be. It could carry 1000kg over 1000 km, there was space for a gunner in the dorsal position and it was faster than a 109E. This would have left any other Luftwaffe bomber (and any other front line fighter in the world) for dead. In retrospect, it would probably have something to do with the fact that it couldn't divebomb.

It may have been difficult to fit a conventional bombsight in the glazed noze (I would imagine the vibration from the prop shaft could upset it, but that's just speculation on my part), and it probably fell between two stools. The Ju87 was small, cheap and highly accurate, while the Luftwaffe harboured high hopes for the Ju 88 as a Wonderbomber right up to its disappointing showing in the BoB. Also, neither of the Junkers designs would impinge on Bf109 production.

As an aside, there is a tantalising line in Guido Knopp's biography of Göring which refers to senior Luftwaffe Generals discussing the Ju88's disappointing performance during the Battle of Britain. Oh, to have been a fly on the wall.

Still, cool looking plane.

Heinkel_He119_02.jpg
 
Maybe it was threatening some favored projects?

And you just proved that it does pay of to have betond english language skills.
 
I think if the He 118 had a slightly thinner wing and better air brakes, it would have in the long run be a better dive bomber than the Ju 87.

Imagine what would have happened if my suggested "better" He 118 had been able to get the Daimler-Benz DB 601 or 605 engine--it could have become a potent ground-attack plane
 
there Three major reason the HE-118 never went in production

1. the He-118 was far from ready and Heinkel lost a prototype were two pilots were killed
2. the RLM needed A "Sturzkampfbomber" fast as possible, what Junkers provide with Ju 87
3. RLM wandet that Heinkel concentrate on R&D and mass production of He-111 bomber for the Luftwaffe.
 
PS. I knew nothing of the He-119. That was some performance. What held that back from production?

From what I read between the lines it was a proof of concept prototype and making it into a combat-ready production model would probably call for a complete redesign. So
=> in the short run, the German military still thought that all wars they were currently fighting could be won by the planes currently in production and designing new planes should in no way interfere with building more of the old.
=> although the technology showed great prospect for the next generation of aircraft, so did a lot of other technologies then being researched, to say jet aircraft, lkmg-range guide bombs etc.
several of the new technologies pioneered in the He119 were later used in other aircraft, the double engines in the He177 for instance... Others like the surface cooling system were found to be impractical in combat aircraft...

As for the He118, the same reasoning applies. The Ju87 was already in production stage, so the best the He118 could hope for was to be developed further into a Ju87 successor. But at that time no one was even thinking a successor would ever be needed, or at least not in this war.
 
That's true, ennobee

it was proof of concept prototypes
the first two had British Rolls-Royce Kestrel V engine !
the third had a Daimler-Benz DB 600 V engine and this could not perform dive bombing because R&D on He-118 was not finish.
embarrassing because it was on day were He-118 fly against the Ju-87 during demonstration for RLM officials
and later the third prototype crash do pilot error, RLM stop the He-118 program
Prototype four and five went to Japan, were Nr 4 also crash, they abandon the Serie production, but it let to Yokosuka D4Y dive bomber.

Some Historians like Bernard or Graefe consider the RLM decision for Ju-87 as there biggest mistake
Arguing that with more time on R&D the RLM would get better dive bomber as troublesome Ju-87
because later RLM try to improve the Ju-87 aerodynamics with retractable landing gear and an internal bomb bay
what let to Junker JU 287 project that was abandon in 1942...
 
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