Hawaiians reach California pre-1492

First, how plausible is it? Could anyone with good knowledge of the oceanic currents answer this? Second, if it is plausible, how would they interact with the Native Americans? And, later, with the Europeans?
 

Philip

Donor
First, how plausible is it? Could anyone with good knowledge of the oceanic currents answer this?

It's not a direct route by the currents. North first, then east. It's almost certainly going to be accidental, and not sure repeated trips would be beneficial to the Hawaiians.
 
The numbers would be so small they'd likely be absorbed into whichever group they encountered within a few generations. On the other hand, you might get a few Hawaiian loanwords which would puzzle linguists (like the supposed Polynesian loans in IIRC Chumash but with no reasonable alternative explanations).

there are report they might have had but mostly by accident

I doubt it. The distances are too long and their ships too small. Any Hawaiians washing up there would be as dead as the Inuit who occasionally washed up dead in northwestern Europe.
 
The numbers would be so small they'd likely be absorbed into whichever group they encountered within a few generations. On the other hand, you might get a few Hawaiian loanwords which would puzzle linguists (like the supposed Polynesian loans in IIRC Chumash but with no reasonable alternative explanations).



I doubt it. The distances are too long and their ships too small. Any Hawaiians washing up there would be as dead as the Inuit who occasionally washed up dead in northwestern Europe.
You said in https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...um-polynesian-expansion.422384/#post-15292682, that, you believed, that, they might have been able to overwhelm a group of Natives. Also, Hawaii is closer to California than to Tahiti, where the Hawaiians' ancestors had come from.
 
The numbers would be so small they'd likely be absorbed into whichever group they encountered within a few generations. On the other hand, you might get a few Hawaiian loanwords which would puzzle linguists (like the supposed Polynesian loans in IIRC Chumash but with no reasonable alternative explanations).



I doubt it. The distances are too long and their ships too small. Any Hawaiians washing up there would be as dead as the Inuit who occasionally washed up dead in northwestern Europe.
Inuit washed up to North America?
 
The numbers would be so small they'd likely be absorbed into whichever group they encountered within a few generations. On the other hand, you might get a few Hawaiian loanwords which would puzzle linguists (like the supposed Polynesian loans in IIRC Chumash but with no reasonable alternative explanations).



I doubt it. The distances are too long and their ships too small. Any Hawaiians washing up there would be as dead as the Inuit who occasionally washed up dead in northwestern Europe.
How many people lived in Hawaii by the end of XV century?
 
Archaeological evidence estimates a pre-European max population around 200k while early European reports estimated closer to 400k. The real number is probably somewhere between the two.
This is scholarship decades outdated. Kirch and Hammon both agree that the population of Hawai'i in the 1770s was around half a million. In 1500, admittedly, this must have been far lower.
 
This is scholarship decades outdated. Kirch and Hammon both agree that the population of Hawai'i in the 1770s was around half a million. In 1500, admittedly, this must have been far lower.

Do you have any papers on that? I don't know much at all on the topic and haven't found much recent work beyond a couple news stories. I'd be interesting to see how the methodology changed to get different numbers.
 
I doubt any Hawaiians would really do anything, at most they could set up trading posts on the outer surrounding islands.
 
The numbers would be so small they'd likely be absorbed into whichever group they encountered within a few generations. On the other hand, you might get a few Hawaiian loanwords which would puzzle linguists (like the supposed Polynesian loans in IIRC Chumash but with no reasonable alternative explanations).



I doubt it. The distances are too long and their ships too small. Any Hawaiians washing up there would be as dead as the Inuit who occasionally washed up dead in northwestern Europe.


1. If they can make from Tahiti to Hawaii, they can make it to North America 2. They made it ever further to Easter Island
 
Linguistic links between the Quechua and the various Polynesian dialects would indicate Polynesian trade contact with the Peruvian coast. The Quechua word kumar for sweet potato is known as kūmara in the Māori language with similar words in a variety of Polynesian cognates (kumara, umala, 'uala, etc).

Hawaiians reaching North America would likely rely on different circumstances, but certainly wouldn't be impossible depending on when any exploration occurs. Migration and settlement would be rather interesting, but unlikely considering the distances involved.

Though Polynesians settled far and wide of the Pacific, so it is definitely plausible.
 
1. If they can make from Tahiti to Hawaii, they can make it to North America 2. They made it ever further to Easter Island

1. They stopped in the Line Islands before reaching Hawaii
2. IIRC Easter Island (and from there to South America) isn't as far as California and you're sailing with the currents and winds. Hawaii to California goes against the currents and winds.
 
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