Hawaiians as America's martial race

Keenir

Banned
(or should this go in Pre-1900 for the mid- or late-1800s?)


Britain has the Gurkhas....could the US have decided that the Native Hawaiians would be a good choice for their own martial race?


{when its performed by guys, you can definately see how the hula is related to the Maori haka}
 
Unfortunately, the POD would have to be pre-1900 to really be effective and at least make the Hawaiians the equivalent of the Ghurkas. I read a book about the military history of the Kingdom of Hawaii and the author did question why there was such a remarkable difference between the 'warrior-race' of the pre-Contact to 1820, for example, and the Hawaiians of 1893 that surrendered their kingdom without a fight. The impact of disease upon the warrior caste was near total.

One of the most unfortunate occurances is actually Kamehameha's conquest of the islands. His campaign, particularly against the island of Kauai, drew together a huge army, which at least once or twice was completely decimated by disease.

I think a more likely warrior caste would be the Samoans.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Not exactly plausible, but here we go

I have this image in my head of tanned muscular men riding the waves on a counter-attack of a Japanese landing force in 1941, holding BARs they gun down troops already on the beach and avoid Japanese fire with some sick twists and turns. As the mighty waves overturn Japanese landing crafts the Hawaiians make it onto the beach and begin systematically killing the remaining Japanese while a second wave of Imperial troops are fended off by a group of elderly Hawaiian veterans riding sharks (and one Japanese-American shark-rider whom they don't quite trust yet). When the Japanese offensive is broken a beautiful Hawaiian woman, the last of the hidden line of Hawaiian royalty, summons a Volcano to explode and remove the Japanese Air planes from the sky after they've destroyed the mainland-American produced jets that were still on the ground. The Volcano is made to erupt by an earthquake that erupts in Japan, ending the life of the leaders who wished to attack America and some moderates are put into place as the last Japanese planes fall burning from the sky, flying in a kamikaze fashion into their own ships and removing the last traces of Japanese imperialism in the American waters. As the American forces come to Japan to enforce a treaty the Hawaiian Special Forces are sent to Europe to assist the Viking-like Nordic Resistance in an effort to assassinate Hitler.
 
Last edited:

Keenir

Banned
Unfortunately, the POD would have to be pre-1900 to really be effective and at least make the Hawaiians the equivalent of the Ghurkas. I read a book about the military history of the Kingdom of Hawaii and the author did question why there was such a remarkable difference between the 'warrior-race' of the pre-Contact to 1820, for example, and the Hawaiians of 1893 that surrendered their kingdom without a fight.

if you ever re-find this book, please let me know, so I can find it in my library.

and thank you.

One of the most unfortunate occurances is actually Kamehameha's conquest of the islands. His campaign, particularly against the island of Kauai, drew together a huge army, which at least once or twice was completely decimated by disease.

huge armies are sadly vulnerable to such things.

hm...keep the islands divided (maybe just in two kingdoms)...?

I think a more likely warrior caste would be the Samoans.

that could work.

same time frame, though? or could it have happened this century?


I have this image in my head of tanned muscular men riding the waves on a counter-attack of a Japanese landing force in 1941,
As the mighty waves overturn Japanese landing crafts the Hawaiians make it onto the beach and begin systematically killing the remaining Japanese

given the Hawaiians' ability to carry heavy loads for distances underwater, that's actually plausible.


mmmeee0,

Well, that's just as plausible as the OP's question.



Bill

then we need to find someone who will move this to pre-1900.

though it's no less plausible than whomever initially thought up "hey, I heard we just found a tribe out in some remote mountains. let's have them be the sharp end of our Empire's sword." (I imagine the initial reaction was "if we need cannon fodder, we'll just use the Scots and Irish, as we always have")
 
I have this image in my head of tanned muscular men riding the waves on a counter-attack of a Japanese landing force in 1941, holding BARs they gun down troops already on the beach and avoid Japanese fire with some sick twists and turns. As the mighty waves overturn Japanese landing crafts the Hawaiians make it onto the beach and begin systematically killing the remaining Japanese while a second wave of Imperial troops are fended off by a group of elderly Hawaiian veterans riding sharks (and one Japanese-American shark-rider whom they don't quite trust yet). When the Japanese offensive is broken a beautiful Hawaiian woman, the last of the hidden line of Hawaiian royalty, summons a Volcano to explode and remove the Japanese Air planes from the sky after they've destroyed the mainland-American produced jets that were still on the ground. The Volcano is made to erupt by an earthquake that erupts in Japan, ending the life of the leaders who wished to attack America and some moderates are put into place as the last Japanese planes fall burning from the sky, flying in a kamikaze fashion into their own ships and removing the last traces of Japanese imperialism in the American waters. As the American forces come to Japan to enforce a treaty the Hawaiian Special Forces are sent to Europe to assist the Viking-like Nordic Resistance in an effort to assassinate Hitler.

What.
the.
hell?

That was a mash up of Horribly bizarre and Hilarious.

given the Hawaiians' ability to carry heavy loads for distances underwater, that's actually plausible.

What?
 
Unfortunately, the POD would have to be pre-1900 to really be effective and at least make the Hawaiians the equivalent of the Ghurkas. I read a book about the military history of the Kingdom of Hawaii and the author did question why there was such a remarkable difference between the 'warrior-race' of the pre-Contact to 1820, for example, and the Hawaiians of 1893 that surrendered their kingdom without a fight. The impact of disease upon the warrior caste was near total.

One of the most unfortunate occurances is actually Kamehameha's conquest of the islands. His campaign, particularly against the island of Kauai, drew together a huge army, which at least once or twice was completely decimated by disease.

I think a more likely warrior caste would be the Samoans.

There's no shortage of Samoans in the US military, quite a contrast to independent Samoa which has no army at all.

There was a proposal by Joseph K Dixon in 1917 that Indians be turned into "America's Cossacks." All Indian boys were to be put in military schools and required to be soldiers from age 17 to 50. Positions in the military were to be decided by tribe, cavalry for Plains tribes and runners for tribes from the southwest.

It didn't pass because many others wanted Indians to be assimilated, "war as a civilizer."
 
if you ever re-find this book, please let me know, so I can find it in my library. and thank you.

Took a look for it:

A Military History of Sovereign Hawai'i by Neil Bernard Dukas, Mutual Publishing, 2004. ISBN: 1566476364

A really excellent little book.
 

Keenir

Banned

pick up a heavy rock, run across the beach underwater while still carrying that rock.

Hawaiians really do do this.

There was a proposal by Joseph K Dixon in 1917 that Indians be turned into "America's Cossacks." All Indian boys were to be put in military schools and required to be soldiers from age 17 to 50. Positions in the military were to be decided by tribe, cavalry for Plains tribes and runners for tribes from the southwest.

:eek::):cool::D Now that surpasses Yiddish Policeman's Union in the category of "plans so outlandish you'd never think they were ever possible, until you're told the evidence."
(til now, nothing had surpassed YPU)

thank you for the evidence.
 
pick up a heavy rock, run across the beach underwater while still carrying that rock.

Hawaiians really do do this.

Run underwater.

Last time I checked, Ancient Hawaiians did't have gills, and Breakwaters and Fish ponds were built by long lines of People carrying rocks.
 
Top