Have the western and eastern roman empire survive in Italy and Greece

You must create a scenario where the eastern and the western empire survive to modern day, holding only greece and Italy respectively.

Secondly, the timeline must be as close to OTL as possible, meaning you need a nation of france, britian, holy roman empire and so on. The crusades must happen in some way or another, there must be a 100 year war. Meaning there should be as little butterfly effects as possible.

Technology development also needs to be similar to real world time line.


Which means you have take our time line, and modify it by adding in two nation state such as the western and eastern roman empire.



Sorry about this, I have posted it in the wrong section of the board.
progress.gif
 
Are you talking modern Greece proper and Italy proper? Or the ancient definitions of the same lands?

Modern day Italy, for greece...it includes constantinople.


Bascially make them almost having no real influence to change history, or being able to be the superpower of euorpe.
 
Legend

Indigo=Sasanian Empire
Rose=Roman Empire (JUSTINAN ERA)
Yellow=Visigotic Spain
Brown= Merovigian France
 
You must create a scenario where the eastern and the western empire survive to modern day, holding only greece and Italy respectively.

Secondly, the timeline must be as close to OTL as possible, meaning you need a nation of france, britian, holy roman empire and so on. The crusades must happen in some way or another, there must be a 100 year war. Meaning there should be as little butterfly effects as possible.
That's impossible.
Which means you have take our time line, and modify it by adding in two nation state such as the western and eastern roman empire.
Neither could remotely qualify as a nation state.
 
So the Eastern Romans are only allowed to survive in Greece? Doesn't seem like much of an Eastern Roman Empire if it doesn't have at least Constantinople at the very least.
 
Well a semi copout solution would be simply to have Greece Join WWI earlier and have them receive Istanbul/Constantinople in the peace treaty they then declare themselves the Roman Empire eventually not to be outdone Italy also claims to be the Roman Empire. Finally you just need to have them lose their other territories not specified not too hard Greece losses its foothold in Asia Minor to Turkey as OTL and Italy either losses theirs through another war or just due to decolonization.
Now if you want a continuous existence of such states since the east/west split that occupy just modern Italy and Greece with next to no butterflies your talking ASB.
 
So the Eastern Romans are only allowed to survive in Greece? Doesn't seem like much of an Eastern Roman Empire if it doesn't have at least Constantinople at the very least.

They have constantinople in this scenario.

Well a semi copout solution would be simply to have Greece Join WWI earlier and have them receive Istanbul/Constantinople in the peace treaty they then declare themselves the Roman Empire eventually not to be outdone Italy also claims to be the Roman Empire. Finally you just need to have them lose their other territories not specified not too hard Greece losses its foothold in Asia Minor to Turkey as OTL and Italy either losses theirs through another war or just due to decolonization.
Now if you want a continuous existence of such states since the east/west split that occupy just modern Italy and Greece with next to no butterflies your talking ASB.

It's not ASB, as this is within reality to some extend. This is just a extremely hard timeline to make.

Butterflies can be allowed to a certain extend, but the only differneece is, the modern day geo-political, social and technology must be more or less the same as our world, with the exception of a western and eastern rome state.
 
Butterflies can be allowed to a certain extend, but the only differneece is, the modern day geo-political, social and technology must be more or less the same as our world, with the exception of a western and eastern rome state.
That's just not going to happen. You asked for specific things like crusades, the 100 Years War, the Holy Roman Empire, etc... having the WRE survive would be an absolutely massive change to the timeline. Quick example, and I'm hoping you have some grasp of the butterfly effect here so that you can understand that they'd go far beyond anything even this basic:

Surviving WRE = no loss of authority in Italy = no power vacuum giving rise to the Popes = barbarians not threatening papal authority = no Charlamagne being crowned HREmperor = no HRE = no West Frankia = no (OTL) France = no 100 Years War. Of course the butterflies would be much, much, much to the nth degree more widespread and world changing than that.
 
Top