Fuzzy Dunlop
Banned
So have the Sunbeam Alpine/Tiger Series be as successful as it's MG and Triumph rivals especially in the US.
Would selling the V8 powered Tiger much earlier help?
Much obliged!
Have the Sunbeam Alpine/Tiger Series be as successful as MG and Triumph roadsters
- Thread starter Fuzzy Dunlop
- Start date
So have the Sunbeam Alpine/Tiger Series be as successful as it's MG and Triumph rivals especially in the US.
Would selling the V8 powered Tiger much earlier help?
Much obliged!
If William Lyons chooses to sell the tollings for the V8's to Rootes because what he really wants was the Daimler factory to expand its business, I can see Rootes putting the engines to good use.
Jaguar developed a 5 l V8 from the 4.5 l, so a 3 l developed from the 2.5 l seems doable and a good base for an American market strategy that could be very profitable.
Sunbeam Tiger V8, 2.5 and 3.0, cabriolet and coupe
Humber Hawk V8 3.0 l, saloon and estate
Humber Snipe V8 3.0 l
Ogle presents a GT prototype, Rootes buys the rights to the design and the Sunbeam Scimitar is produced in coupe, cabriolet and shooting break form , using the 4.5 l V8.
Humber Imperial V8 5.0 l, saloon and estate
It's possible that a range of vehicles using two brands (Humber and Sunbeam) , V8 engines and Borg Warner automatic transmissions, could be successful in the US and provide Rootes with a steady income to balance the finances of the group and maybe prevent the demands of the british government that forced Rootes to produce the Imp in Scotland.
Jaguar developed a 5 l V8 from the 4.5 l, so a 3 l developed from the 2.5 l seems doable and a good base for an American market strategy that could be very profitable.
Sunbeam Tiger V8, 2.5 and 3.0, cabriolet and coupe
Humber Hawk V8 3.0 l, saloon and estate
Humber Snipe V8 3.0 l
Ogle presents a GT prototype, Rootes buys the rights to the design and the Sunbeam Scimitar is produced in coupe, cabriolet and shooting break form , using the 4.5 l V8.
Humber Imperial V8 5.0 l, saloon and estate
It's possible that a range of vehicles using two brands (Humber and Sunbeam) , V8 engines and Borg Warner automatic transmissions, could be successful in the US and provide Rootes with a steady income to balance the finances of the group and maybe prevent the demands of the british government that forced Rootes to produce the Imp in Scotland.
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I have thought of one interesting possibility:
Suppose the BMW/Rootes merger proposed in the early 1960s went through, and the merged company uses the then-current BMW V8 engine?
That would at least have avoided the troubles of the Sunbeam Tiger, which could fit a Ford but no Chrysler V8 engine and had to be discontinued after Chrystler took over Rootes. If that BMW V8 could have been adapted to an automatic transmission – which it never was before ceasing production in 1965 – it could have added about 15 percent more power to the big Humbers too.
Suppose the BMW/Rootes merger proposed in the early 1960s went through, and the merged company uses the then-current BMW V8 engine?
That would at least have avoided the troubles of the Sunbeam Tiger, which could fit a Ford but no Chrysler V8 engine and had to be discontinued after Chrystler took over Rootes. If that BMW V8 could have been adapted to an automatic transmission – which it never was before ceasing production in 1965 – it could have added about 15 percent more power to the big Humbers too.
Front-end styling of the coupe reminds me of the '61-'63 Ford T-Birds.... always one of my favourites
Fuzzy Dunlop
Banned
Front-end styling of the coupe reminds me of the '61-'63 Ford T-Birds.... always one of my favourites
Know the model well . . . driven by Felix Leiter in "Goldfinger"
marathag
Banned
As with most Automotive things British, it gets vastly improved with an American V8.
but here we do something a little different
So rather than going with the Ford 260 V8, they go for the Aluminum 215 from Oldsmobile, that wasn't exactly like the Buick, built a bit beefier
So Rover still gets the Buick, but they would be following what Rootes had already done.
So the Tiger gets a four barrel 215 at 185HP, or even the turbo version if wanting to live on the bleeding edge.
with either engine, it's lighter and 20 more HP than the 260 had, up to 60 while the Turbo engine kept running.
When desired, it's not had to get it to 300 cubic inches when the HP wars really take off
marathag
Banned
Well, Chrysler could have used their OHV version of the old Ford Baby Flathead that they gained with SIMCA and being produced in Brazil in the '60s
That was smaller than their LA 273
Make the Tiger a real 'World Car' that way
EDIT Engine in the Metal
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The Daimler 2.5 L V8 provides 140 HP so a 3.0 l can probably provide 175 HP and that's better than the BMW V8 that produced 120 HP in 2.5 L and 160 HP in 3.2 L.
The Daimler 4.5 L provides 220 HP so a 5.0 L is good for 275 HP and Jaguar prototypes reached 300 HP.
The BMW engine was all aluminum so it's lighter than the Daimler and that's important.
Rootes would benefit from a merger and I have read about several that were proposed.
Honestly, to me, the better scenario would be a merger with Borgward group and the same way that Triumph produced cars styled by Michelotti, Hillman and Sunbeam could have used the skill of Pietro Frua that designed several prototypes for Borgward that were later used by Glas cars.
Maybe the Frua designs for the Maserati Quattroporte and Maserati Mexico become instead the next Humber Imperial saloon and coupe
The Daimler 4.5 L provides 220 HP so a 5.0 L is good for 275 HP and Jaguar prototypes reached 300 HP.
The BMW engine was all aluminum so it's lighter than the Daimler and that's important.
Rootes would benefit from a merger and I have read about several that were proposed.
Honestly, to me, the better scenario would be a merger with Borgward group and the same way that Triumph produced cars styled by Michelotti, Hillman and Sunbeam could have used the skill of Pietro Frua that designed several prototypes for Borgward that were later used by Glas cars.
Maybe the Frua designs for the Maserati Quattroporte and Maserati Mexico become instead the next Humber Imperial saloon and coupe
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Riain
Banned
Was the Old V8 as narrow as the Ford Windsor? The 221-260-289-302 had a very low deck height making it very narrow and therefore able to fit where the Chev and Chrysler small blocks couldn't. I don't think I've ever seen an Olds V8, is it wide like the Chev and Chrysler or narrow like the Ford Windsor, because if it's wide it won't fit the sunbeam without major (read expensive) surgery.
marathag
Banned
| V8 Engine | Width | Length | Height | Weight |
| Buick/Olds 215 | 26 | 28 | 27 | 320 |
| SB Olds | 26 | 28 | 27.5 | 560 |
| Ford Windsor | 27 | 29 | 27.5 | 460 |
| Ford Flathead | 24 | 30 | 26 | 450 |
| SB Chev | 26.5 | 28 | 27 | 575 |
| Mopar LA | 29.5 | 29 | 30 | 550 |
Now there are some differences from manifold and accessory designs, so all these are approximate
Riain
Banned
The SB Chev is narrower than the Ford Windsor? That doesn't sound right, the Windsor is tiny, my brother had a 302 in an XB Falcon and it looked smaller than the 6 cylinder.
marathag
Banned
as mentioned, the accessories and manifolds make a big difference for actual fitment
EDIT, the Fords are narrower at the bottom of the block,
SB Chevy
A Windsor long block, that's under 20" wide at the exhaust ports
Now the Ford Baby Flathead, 136cu.in
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Wouldn't that need Shelby himself not to have such close ties with Ford? Especially given the Cobra is roughly contemporaneous...
IDK of anybody at Chrysler doing what Shelby was, but IMO Chrysler (or Plymouth/Dodge, if you want to badge-engineer it) is the only really viable choice: GM's got Corvette, & isn't going to undermine it by tuning on an import. (Not unless you get management changes & an understanding the *Tiger, with input from Buick or Olds, is going after the T-bird & 300, & not the 'vette or 'stang.)
If I had my way, though, I'd turn Delorean loose on it...
The width numbers I've seen put the SBC at 22", same as the 302 Ford, & the flatty at 26"... I got the sense those were for the bare block, so headers would vary it.
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